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The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe

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  • axel van looy
    Rome is running here on Belgian public channel as well, i just saw the 5th episode i don t know if there edited or not? can someone explain what the editing in
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Rome is running here on Belgian public channel as well,
       
      i just saw the 5th episode
       
      i don't know if there edited or not?
       
      can someone explain what the editing in particular is about?
       
      i must say i especially like the actor who plays Julius Caesar but i do like the whole series
       
      hope they make a second series ...
       
      Axel
       
       
    • Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly
      Hi Phillip and everyone, I think we have been to used to movies on Rome from Ben Hur to Gladiator where the real filth, squaler, foul language, graphic sex and
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 1, 2005
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        Hi Phillip and everyone,

        I think we have been to used to movies on Rome from Ben Hur to
        Gladiator where the real filth, squaler, foul language, graphic sex
        and every day street brutality was left out. Similarily there has
        been a western series called "Dead Wood" which is so different from
        the regular westerns where the normally white picket fence town is
        gone, streets are filthy mud, cattle strutting around with manure
        covering their posteriors and the characters are using modern day
        street obscenties. I'm sure frontier mining towns of 19th century
        America were like that but this takes time to get used to.

        All in all this seems to be the trend of new movies and miniseries
        and may be the something which is difficult to put the finger on.

        Regards,

        Michael Kelly





        >
        > Yes, the sets are good, the acting is fine, but there's something
        odd about
        > it that I can't quite put my finger on...
        >
        > Philip Shaw • Virorum Limited
        > Phone: (UK) 0870 042 3718 (Intl) +44-870-042-3718
        > Fax: (UK) 01924 666 200 (Intl) +44-1924-666-200
        > Website: http://www.qmstores.co.uk
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: imperialrome2@...
        > [mailto:imperialrome2@...] On Behalf Of Anibal
        Madeira
        > Sent: 30 November 2005 12:21
        > To: imperialrome2@...
        > Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe
        >
        > Hi. Only in Britain. Here in Portugal the series isn´t running. Do
        you know
        > if the channel where "rome" is running in Britain is a cable one?
        >
        > Best Wishes
        >
        > Anibal
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Mary Harrsch" <mharrsch@u...>
        > To: <imperialrome2@...>
        > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:30 PM
        > Subject: [Imperial Rome] The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe
        >
        >
        > > Now that some of you in Europe have had a chance to see several
        > > episodes of HBO's "Rome", I was wondering what your reaction is
        so
        > > far? We here in the states are still reeling from the graphic
        > > depiction of Caesar's assassination in the season finale. Those
        of us
        > > that admire Caesar and enjoyed Ciaran Hinds depiction of him
        found the
        > > last episode very wrenching. We are also impatient for season 2.
        > > Someone told me that Europe's reaction has been rather lukewarm
        so HBO
        > > is rethinking continuing the series. I hope that is a false
        rumor as
        > > I enjoyed it very much (despite a few inaccuracies).
        > >
        > > - Libitina
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Marc Ferrara
        Verinus and Pullo were two historical figures (both Centurions) that Julius Ceasar comments on in The Gallic War . He speaks of their one-upsmanship in a
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 1, 2005
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          Verinus and Pullo were two historical figures (both Centurions) that Julius Ceasar comments on in "The Gallic War". He speaks of their one-upsmanship in a couple battles.

          As for an earlier comment that Americans don't learn anything aboutg the Romans in high school, I was lucky enough to learn a great deal about the Romans from Mr. Long and Capistrano Valley High in California (a public school). Far more than I ever learned in College.

          OctCocceius@... wrote:
          It seems that in the UK, the first two episodes were a precis of the first three in the US - quite surprising as the BBC co-produced it with HBO. This I felt potentially made it difficult to follow: OK for those who had reasonable knowledge of the events in that period but for those that don't, it was a minefield without the extra background to understand the people relationships (phone calls after the episodes from my daughter and son to check on a number of points)..
           
          I (on the basis of 4 episodes) am particularly impressed with the sets but it is a little too "soap-operish" with the main focus (Verinus and Pullo) being non-historical characters. I also think that they could have done with a well-versed Roman historian/archaeologist to check the historicity of the non-fictional events/persons (which they seem to have done only in the sets). Just taking 3 points, for example, (i) Octavian(us) did not take that name until his adoption by C. Julius Caesar (on his death). Before this he was actually known as Octavius; (ii) Octavia was not married to Glabius as shown in the early episodes, but to Gaius Claudius Marcellus and (iii) in the trailer and 1st/2nd episode, Pullo is shown evading the wrath of  gamblers from a tavern by totally immersing himself in a drinking trough - I have seen tens of examples in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Puteoli, North Africa and none were large enough for even a small man to immerse himself, let alone the bulk of Pullo.
           
          In comparison, I found the series "I Claudius" and "Masada" more faithful to actual history but I am enjoying the entertainment value of "Rome" though they could put more history in place of some of the annoying titillating rubbish (I'm no prude but it should be included only when it really adds to the plot rather than have the apparent compulsory gratuitous bits in each episode - possibly for the US audience as we can get far worse (or better?) sexy clips in Europe).
           
          In conclusion, if viewed as fiction with a little lip-service to ancient history, it is enjoyable and I hope HBO/BBC will stump up the investment for another series - it really would be criminal to let those superb sets go to waste.

          __________________________________________________
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          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • Mary Asatruar
          You were most fortunate to have such a fine history teacher in public school. Unfortunately, it has been my sad experience that most Americans do not get a
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 1, 2005
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            You were most fortunate to have such a fine history teacher in public school. Unfortunately, it has been my sad experience that most Americans do not get a good background in history and derive a lot of their information from the movies.
             
            Mary
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 14:01 PM
            Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe

            Verinus and Pullo were two historical figures (both Centurions) that Julius Ceasar comments on in "The Gallic War". He speaks of their one-upsmanship in a couple battles.

            As for an earlier comment that Americans don't learn anything aboutg the Romans in high school, I was lucky enough to learn a great deal about the Romans from Mr. Long and Capistrano Valley High in California (a public school). Far more than I ever learned in College.

            OctCocceius@... wrote:
            It seems that in the UK, the first two episodes were a precis of the first three in the US - quite surprising as the BBC co-produced it with HBO. This I felt potentially made it difficult to follow: OK for those who had reasonable knowledge of the events in that period but for those that don't, it was a minefield without the extra background to understand the people relationships (phone calls after the episodes from my daughter and son to check on a number of points)..
             
            I (on the basis of 4 episodes) am particularly impressed with the sets but it is a little too "soap-operish" with the main focus (Verinus and Pullo) being non-historical characters. I also think that they could have done with a well-versed Roman historian/archaeologist to check the historicity of the non-fictional events/persons (which they seem to have done only in the sets). Just taking 3 points, for example, (i) Octavian(us) did not take that name until his adoption by C. Julius Caesar (on his death). Before this he was actually known as Octavius; (ii) Octavia was not married to Glabius as shown in the early episodes, but to Gaius Claudius Marcellus and (iii) in the trailer and 1st/2nd episode, Pullo is shown evading the wrath of  gamblers from a tavern by totally immersing himself in a drinking trough - I have seen tens of examples in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Puteoli, North Africa and none were large enough for even a small man to immerse himself, let alone the bulk of Pullo.
             
            In comparison, I found the series "I Claudius" and "Masada" more faithful to actual history but I am enjoying the entertainment value of "Rome" though they could put more history in place of some of the annoying titillating rubbish (I'm no prude but it should be included only when it really adds to the plot rather than have the apparent compulsory gratuitous bits in each episode - possibly for the US audience as we can get far worse (or better?) sexy clips in Europe).
             
            In conclusion, if viewed as fiction with a little lip-service to ancient history, it is enjoyable and I hope HBO/BBC will stump up the investment for another series - it really would be criminal to let those superb sets go to waste.

            __________________________________________________
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            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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          • greg carroll
            Actually I had three Outstanding History Teachers Mr Butler in fifth grade, Emma Havens Young Middle School, Brick NJ who taught us not only classical Greek
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 2, 2005
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              Actually I had three Outstanding History Teachers
              Mr Butler in fifth grade, Emma Havens Young Middle School, Brick NJ who taught us not only classical Greek and Roman History to the point where we could spot the difference between an ionic or doric column in a flash, We not only knew who Caesar was but also who Aurelia was.
              Mr Donatello and Mr. Felz at Brick Township High School expanded on that Knowledge to the point where we were quoting Figures on Cannae  from Livy and reading Passages By Marcus Aurelious. And liking it. No one got less than a B in those classes, not because they were given a break, but because they loved those classes and earned those grades.
              Greg

              Mary Asatruar <marys2cats@...> wrote:
              You were most fortunate to have such a fine history teacher in public school. Unfortunately, it has been my sad experience that most Americans do not get a good background in history and derive a lot of their information from the movies.
               
              Mary
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 14:01 PM
              Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe

              Verinus and Pullo were two historical figures (both Centurions) that Julius Ceasar comments on in "The Gallic War". He speaks of their one-upsmanship in a couple battles.

              As for an earlier comment that Americans don't learn anything aboutg the Romans in high school, I was lucky enough to learn a great deal about the Romans from Mr. Long and Capistrano Valley High in California (a public school). Far more than I ever learned in College.

              OctCocceius@... wrote:
              It seems that in the UK, the first two episodes were a precis of the first three in the US - quite surprising as the BBC co-produced it with HBO. This I felt potentially made it difficult to follow: OK for those who had reasonable knowledge of the events in that period but for those that don't, it was a minefield without the extra background to understand the people relationships (phone calls after the episodes from my daughter and son to check on a number of points)..
               
              I (on the basis of 4 episodes) am particularly impressed with the sets but it is a little too "soap-operish" with the main focus (Verinus and Pullo) being non-historical characters. I also think that they could have done with a well-versed Roman historian/archaeologist to check the historicity of the non-fictional events/persons (which they seem to have done only in the sets). Just taking 3 points, for example, (i) Octavian(us) did not take that name until his adoption by C. Julius Caesar (on his death). Before this he was actually known as Octavius; (ii) Octavia was not married to Glabius as shown in the early episodes, but to Gaius Claudius Marcellus and (iii) in the trailer and 1st/2nd episode, Pullo is shown evading the wrath of  gamblers from a tavern by totally immersing himself in a drinking trough - I have seen tens of examples in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Puteoli, North Africa and none were large enough for even a small man to immerse himself, let alone the bulk of Pullo.
               
              In comparison, I found the series "I Claudius" and "Masada" more faithful to actual history but I am enjoying the entertainment value of "Rome" though they could put more history in place of some of the annoying titillating rubbish (I'm no prude but it should be included only when it really adds to the plot rather than have the apparent compulsory gratuitous bits in each episode - possibly for the US audience as we can get far worse (or better?) sexy clips in Europe).
               
              In conclusion, if viewed as fiction with a little lip-service to ancient history, it is enjoyable and I hope HBO/BBC will stump up the investment for another series - it really would be criminal to let those superb sets go to waste.

              __________________________________________________
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              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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            • cinnacor
              --Well, I know more Roman history than do Italians. For example in Venice one of them thought that the four emperor rulers created by Diocletian were
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 3, 2005
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                --Well, I know more Roman history than do Italians. For example in
                Venice one of them thought that the four emperor rulers created by
                Diocletian were Byzantine. I told her that two ruled in the east and
                two ruled in the west, this was when I went to Italy back in 1992.
                One of my Roman history is self-taught.
                Cinnacor atioateduring - In imperialrome2@..., "Mary
                Asatruar" <marys2cats@e...> wrote:
                > You were most fortunate to have such a fine history teacher in
                public school. Unfortunately, it has been my sad experience that most
                Americans do not get a good background in history and derive a lot of
                their information from the movies.
                >
                > Mary
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Marc Ferrara
                > To: imperialrome2@...
                > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 14:01 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe
                >
                >
                > Verinus and Pullo were two historical figures (both Centurions)
                that Julius Ceasar comments on in "The Gallic War". He speaks of
                their one-upsmanship in a couple battles.
                >
                > As for an earlier comment that Americans don't learn anything
                aboutg the Romans in high school, I was lucky enough to learn a great
                deal about the Romans from Mr. Long and Capistrano Valley High in
                California (a public school). Far more than I ever learned in College.
                >
                > OctCocceius@a... wrote:
                > It seems that in the UK, the first two episodes were a precis
                of the first three in the US - quite surprising as the BBC co-
                produced it with HBO. This I felt potentially made it difficult to
                follow: OK for those who had reasonable knowledge of the events in
                that period but for those that don't, it was a minefield without the
                extra background to understand the people relationships (phone calls
                after the episodes from my daughter and son to check on a number of
                points)..
                >
                > I (on the basis of 4 episodes) am particularly impressed with
                the sets but it is a little too "soap-operish" with the main focus
                (Verinus and Pullo) being non-historical characters. I also think
                that they could have done with a well-versed Roman
                historian/archaeologist to check the historicity of the non-fictional
                events/persons (which they seem to have done only in the sets). Just
                taking 3 points, for example, (i) Octavian(us) did not take that name
                until his adoption by C. Julius Caesar (on his death). Before this he
                was actually known as Octavius; (ii) Octavia was not married to
                Glabius as shown in the early episodes, but to Gaius Claudius
                Marcellus and (iii) in the trailer and 1st/2nd episode, Pullo is
                shown evading the wrath of gamblers from a tavern by totally
                immersing himself in a drinking trough - I have seen tens of examples
                in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Puteoli, North Africa and none were large
                enough for even a small man to immerse himself, let alone the bulk of
                Pullo.
                >
                > In comparison, I found the series "I Claudius" and "Masada"
                more faithful to actual history but I am enjoying the entertainment
                value of "Rome" though they could put more history in place of some
                of the annoying titillating rubbish (I'm no prude but it should be
                included only when it really adds to the plot rather than have the
                apparent compulsory gratuitous bits in each episode - possibly for
                the US audience as we can get far worse (or better?) sexy clips in
                Europe).
                >
                > In conclusion, if viewed as fiction with a little lip-service
                to ancient history, it is enjoyable and I hope HBO/BBC will stump up
                the investment for another series - it really would be criminal to
                let those superb sets go to waste.
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/imperialrome2/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > imperialrome2-unsubscribe@...
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
              • khakiberetman
                It s weird but most of my knowledge of Roman history is self-taught as well even though I live in Europe. Back in the 1970s there were still some good
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 4, 2005
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                  It's weird but most of my knowledge of Roman history is self-taught as well
                  even though I live in Europe. Back in the 1970s there were still some good
                  illustrated books about ancient civilizations aimed at children which I
                  fortunately received from relatives on birthdays, christmas, etc. it gave me a
                  good start. The French secondary educational system is relatively good on
                  modern and contemporary history but it evacuates ancient and medieval; as
                  far as the history courses go, the Roman period is pretty mediocre in
                  treatment, you will get more of a chance of learning more if you take Latin
                  courses, but these are optional and so taken by an infinite minority; even then,
                  the focuss is more on the language than on the history, and the texts studied
                  will tend to come from other literary genres, poetry, philosophy, theatre rather
                  than history. Learning about the history and the civilization, that was my own
                  interest, it still is. And since university teaching is highly specialized, I've
                  ended up in contemporary history. Nothing in my training has to do with
                  ancient history although i've used my library access to read more about
                  ancient history than "contemporanists" usually do!

                  To return to the original subject, I haven't heard yet if "Rome" will get a slot on
                  French television. It's not uncommon for well received HBO and BBC
                  productions to get broadcast, but I suppose the French broadcasters are
                  looking with great interest at audience figures in both the US and UK before
                  they figure a slot. Whether or not a second season gets produced could also
                  be a factor. From the single episode I have seen, I would concur that it would
                  be a shame letting those sets and costumes go to neglect!

                  --- In imperialrome2@..., greg carroll
                  <gregcarroll_wfnj@y...> wrote:
                  > Actually I had three Outstanding History Teachers
                  > Mr Butler in fifth grade, Emma Havens Young Middle School, Brick NJ who
                  taught us not only classical Greek and Roman History to the point where we
                  could spot the difference between an ionic or doric column in a flash, We not
                  only knew who Caesar was but also who Aurelia was.
                  > Mr Donatello and Mr. Felz at Brick Township High School expanded on
                  that Knowledge to the point where we were quoting Figures on Cannae from
                  Livy and reading Passages By Marcus Aurelious. And liking it. No one got
                  less than a B in those classes, not because they were given a break, but
                  because they loved those classes and earned those grades.
                  > Greg
                  >
                  > Mary Asatruar <marys2cats@e...> wrote:
                  > You were most fortunate to have such a fine history teacher in public
                  school. Unfortunately, it has been my sad experience that most Americans do
                  not get a good background in history and derive a lot of their information from
                  the movies.
                  >
                  > Mary
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Marc Ferrara
                  > To: imperialrome2@...
                  > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 14:01 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe
                  >
                  >
                  > Verinus and Pullo were two historical figures (both Centurions) that Julius
                  Ceasar comments on in "The Gallic War". He speaks of their one-upsmanship
                  in a couple battles.
                  >
                  > As for an earlier comment that Americans don't learn anything aboutg the
                  Romans in high school, I was lucky enough to learn a great deal about the
                  Romans from Mr. Long and Capistrano Valley High in California (a public
                  school). Far more than I ever learned in College.
                  >
                  > OctCocceius@a... wrote: It seems that in the UK, the first two episodes
                  were a precis of the first three in the US - quite surprising as the BBC
                  co-produced it with HBO. This I felt potentially made it difficult to follow: OK for
                  those who had reasonable knowledge of the events in that period but for
                  those that don't, it was a minefield without the extra background to understand
                  the people relationships (phone calls after the episodes from my daughter
                  and son to check on a number of points)..
                  >
                  > I (on the basis of 4 episodes) am particularly impressed with the sets but it
                  is a little too "soap-operish" with the main focus (Verinus and Pullo) being
                  non-historical characters. I also think that they could have done with a
                  well-versed Roman historian/archaeologist to check the historicity of the
                  non-fictional events/persons (which they seem to have done only in the sets).
                  Just taking 3 points, for example, (i) Octavian(us) did not take that name until
                  his adoption by C. Julius Caesar (on his death). Before this he was actually
                  known as Octavius; (ii) Octavia was not married to Glabius as shown in the
                  early episodes, but to Gaius Claudius Marcellus and (iii) in the trailer and
                  1st/2nd episode, Pullo is shown evading the wrath of gamblers from a tavern
                  by totally immersing himself in a drinking trough - I have seen tens of
                  examples in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Puteoli, North Africa and none were
                  large enough for even a small man to immerse himself, let alone the bulk of
                  Pullo.
                  >
                  > In comparison, I found the series "I Claudius" and "Masada" more faithful to
                  actual history but I am enjoying the entertainment value of "Rome" though
                  they could put more history in place of some of the annoying titillating rubbish
                  (I'm no prude but it should be included only when it really adds to the plot
                  rather than have the apparent compulsory gratuitous bits in each episode -
                  possibly for the US audience as we can get far worse (or better?) sexy clips in
                  Europe).
                  >
                  > In conclusion, if viewed as fiction with a little lip-service to ancient history, it
                  is enjoyable and I hope HBO/BBC will stump up the investment for another
                  series - it really would be criminal to let those superb sets go to waste.
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/imperialrome2/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > imperialrome2-unsubscribe@...
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Personals
                  > Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Yahoo! Personals for free
                • Mary Harrsch
                  Khaki, I hope that Cinicetta Studios in Rome will not only keep the sets but develop a tour and Roman experience around them. They also have some of the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
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                    Khaki, I hope that Cinicetta Studios in Rome will not only keep the
                    sets but develop a tour and "Roman experience" around them. They also
                    have some of the large original sets from "Cleopatra". When I was in
                    Rome last Spring, I tried to e-mail their public relations department
                    to see if I could obtain permission for a studio tour but despite
                    repeated mailings, I received no answer. I'm sure it would be more
                    fascinating than anything Universal Studios has constructed at their
                    theme parks so far.


                    --- In imperialrome2@..., khakiberetman <no_reply@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > It's weird but most of my knowledge of Roman history is self-taught
                    as well
                    > even though I live in Europe. Back in the 1970s there were still
                    some good
                    > illustrated books about ancient civilizations aimed at children which I
                    > fortunately received from relatives on birthdays, christmas, etc. it
                    gave me a
                    > good start. The French secondary educational system is relatively
                    good on
                    > modern and contemporary history but it evacuates ancient and
                    medieval; as
                    > far as the history courses go, the Roman period is pretty mediocre in
                    > treatment, you will get more of a chance of learning more if you
                    take Latin
                    > courses, but these are optional and so taken by an infinite
                    minority; even then,
                    > the focuss is more on the language than on the history, and the
                    texts studied
                    > will tend to come from other literary genres, poetry, philosophy,
                    theatre rather
                    > than history. Learning about the history and the civilization, that
                    was my own
                    > interest, it still is. And since university teaching is highly
                    specialized, I've
                    > ended up in contemporary history. Nothing in my training has to do with
                    > ancient history although i've used my library access to read more about
                    > ancient history than "contemporanists" usually do!
                    >
                    > To return to the original subject, I haven't heard yet if "Rome"
                    will get a slot on
                    > French television. It's not uncommon for well received HBO and BBC
                    > productions to get broadcast, but I suppose the French broadcasters are
                    > looking with great interest at audience figures in both the US and
                    UK before
                    > they figure a slot. Whether or not a second season gets produced
                    could also
                    > be a factor. From the single episode I have seen, I would concur
                    that it would
                    > be a shame letting those sets and costumes go to neglect!
                    >
                    > --- In imperialrome2@..., greg carroll
                    > <gregcarroll_wfnj@y...> wrote:
                    > > Actually I had three Outstanding History Teachers
                    > > Mr Butler in fifth grade, Emma Havens Young Middle School, Brick
                    NJ who
                    > taught us not only classical Greek and Roman History to the point
                    where we
                    > could spot the difference between an ionic or doric column in a
                    flash, We not
                    > only knew who Caesar was but also who Aurelia was.
                    > > Mr Donatello and Mr. Felz at Brick Township High School expanded on
                    > that Knowledge to the point where we were quoting Figures on Cannae
                    from
                    > Livy and reading Passages By Marcus Aurelious. And liking it. No one
                    got
                    > less than a B in those classes, not because they were given a break,
                    but
                    > because they loved those classes and earned those grades.
                    > > Greg
                    > >
                    > > Mary Asatruar <marys2cats@e...> wrote:
                    > > You were most fortunate to have such a fine history
                    teacher in public
                    > school. Unfortunately, it has been my sad experience that most
                    Americans do
                    > not get a good background in history and derive a lot of their
                    information from
                    > the movies.
                    > >
                    > > Mary
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Marc Ferrara
                    > > To: imperialrome2@...
                    > > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 14:01 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] The reception of HBO's Rome in Europe
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Verinus and Pullo were two historical figures (both Centurions)
                    that Julius
                    > Ceasar comments on in "The Gallic War". He speaks of their
                    one-upsmanship
                    > in a couple battles.
                    > >
                    > > As for an earlier comment that Americans don't learn anything
                    aboutg the
                    > Romans in high school, I was lucky enough to learn a great deal
                    about the
                    > Romans from Mr. Long and Capistrano Valley High in California (a public
                    > school). Far more than I ever learned in College.
                    > >
                    > > OctCocceius@a... wrote: It seems that in the UK, the first
                    two episodes
                    > were a precis of the first three in the US - quite surprising as the
                    BBC
                    > co-produced it with HBO. This I felt potentially made it difficult
                    to follow: OK for
                    > those who had reasonable knowledge of the events in that period but for
                    > those that don't, it was a minefield without the extra background to
                    understand
                    > the people relationships (phone calls after the episodes from my
                    daughter
                    > and son to check on a number of points)..
                    > >
                    > > I (on the basis of 4 episodes) am particularly impressed with
                    the sets but it
                    > is a little too "soap-operish" with the main focus (Verinus and
                    Pullo) being
                    > non-historical characters. I also think that they could have done
                    with a
                    > well-versed Roman historian/archaeologist to check the historicity
                    of the
                    > non-fictional events/persons (which they seem to have done only in
                    the sets).
                    > Just taking 3 points, for example, (i) Octavian(us) did not take
                    that name until
                    > his adoption by C. Julius Caesar (on his death). Before this he was
                    actually
                    > known as Octavius; (ii) Octavia was not married to Glabius as shown
                    in the
                    > early episodes, but to Gaius Claudius Marcellus and (iii) in the
                    trailer and
                    > 1st/2nd episode, Pullo is shown evading the wrath of gamblers from
                    a tavern
                    > by totally immersing himself in a drinking trough - I have seen tens of
                    > examples in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Puteoli, North Africa and none were
                    > large enough for even a small man to immerse himself, let alone the
                    bulk of
                    > Pullo.
                    > >
                    > > In comparison, I found the series "I Claudius" and "Masada" more
                    faithful to
                    > actual history but I am enjoying the entertainment value of "Rome"
                    though
                    > they could put more history in place of some of the annoying
                    titillating rubbish
                    > (I'm no prude but it should be included only when it really adds to
                    the plot
                    > rather than have the apparent compulsory gratuitous bits in each
                    episode -
                    > possibly for the US audience as we can get far worse (or better?)
                    sexy clips in
                    > Europe).
                    > >
                    > > In conclusion, if viewed as fiction with a little lip-service to
                    ancient history, it
                    > is enjoyable and I hope HBO/BBC will stump up the investment for
                    another
                    > series - it really would be criminal to let those superb sets go to
                    waste.
                    > >
                    > >
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