Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperor
- View SourceItis a rule rather than exception that the least qualified and often mentally deficient individuals are cast in the highest positions of power by socio-political circumstance, force or electoral mischief. Even in our own "empire" we have had our Warren Hardings and George Bushes. Whether it their lack of intellect or just malicious greed (or a combination of both) the results are devastating. Power hunger, greed and corruption are rampant in our own Congress and yet even our positions as electors in a representative repubic is not sufficient as we sit back and watch blatant abuses, "earmarks" and "scandals of the week." Yet we can probably consider ourselves lucky that our congress is not plagued by lead poisoning. Political historians pose that the best form of government for a large society is a benevolent dictatorship but it is that "benevolent" part that is illusive. In many respects, Iran and North Korea resemble ancient Rome under crazy emperors.Regards,Jack----- Original Message -----From: Gerry CarterSent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:48 PMSubject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperoryou are quite right about the lead intake. let alone what they did with body hair shavings! but what did tiberius do on capri for water. i recollect water from wells. i don't think there is a quick answer. we have a fair number of such characters today. was it DNA malfunction? chemical poisoning? lack of hygene? just being rich and all powerful? it needs further study oh great and mighty universities of the world (hint for phd studies).m: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>To: imperialrome2@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:07:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperor----- Original Message -----From: Gerry CarterSent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:00 AMSubject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite EmperorThanks JackI really meant favourite - in the sense of who do you actually like? Vespasian just makes me laugh. I like him - he can come round to dinner. I think that is what I mean. Who wd you invite for dinner?Agree with most of what you say about the Emperors but I try to look at them from a post modern perspective. What made them the men they were? Acumen or accident? On drugs or what? So you start with the early gang being brain dead, in bred, psychotic creatures suddenly given unlimited wealth power and fame. The early equivalents of Brittany Spears, or drug addled sportsmen today. The military had to take over.It has been mentioned before but a considerable portion of the upper class population of Rome, with its lead plumbing, were suffering from lead poisoning. It must be factored into the high infant mortality and poisonings that the historians blamed on conspiracies and the psychotic behavior of the upper class who could afford the piped in water. It could explain the transitions of both Tiberius and Nero from resposible behavior early in their imperiums and becoming whack jobs later. The moral? Don't drink the water on the Palatine.I agree on Vespasian. Probably avoided the leaded water being primarily in the field.JackBut just generally, and this is just conversation and not a formal statement:Augustus - the gold standard from which all were measured. So cool, so clever, so wonderful.Caligula - barking mad nuttter.Marcus Aurelius and his Meditaions - yes that's fine, but I hate to say this I think he was an air head and a bit of a hippy drippy, nit wit. His adopted brother poncing around on a gilded barge in the Med with shedloads of girlfriends whilst pretending to rule the eastern empire and Marcus never seeming to realise. Commodus was no more his son than I am. But Gibbon thought Marcus was way cool so must be something in it.Tiberius,and Nero do seem to me to be suffering from a smear campaign and need re-evaluating eg Nero was quite popular with the plebs as he picked on the super rich but the super rich wrote the spin. Was Tiberius nothing more than pissed at the world because of Augustus' treatment of him?Domitian, Commodus, Caligula, Caracalla, and lets not forget Elagabalus all in bred zombies walking.But what of dear sweet cuddly wuddly Justinian? Has he any fans? Has Julian? I wonder that's all.Gerry
From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>
To: imperialrome2@ yahoogroups. co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:00:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Imperial Rome] Favorite Emperor
Such a simple question...one I never thought of...yet difficult to answer.
We have an initial tendency to define "favorite" as one who possesses
qualities we admire, for example Barack Obama is my "favorite" president
since 1952. A Roman Emperor that comes closest to possessing good
qualities, for me, was Marcus Aurelius. I first read Ta Eis hEauton at 10
and still read it at 70. Most of the Emperors from the Claudians through the
Flavians were cruel, vicious whack jobs...maybe with the exception of
Claudius. If we use the term "fascinating" rather than "favorite," its a
different issue. The most fascinating, for me, would be Augustus. Tiberius
was neither a victim or a hero. He rode on Augustus' steam. He hid out on
Capris raping children and throwing them off a cliff while his chosen thug
ran the Empire. Augustus, on the other hand, was a metaphor for Roman
civilization. Much to admire yet a culture enamored with cruelty. Most
fascinating? Augustus. Favorite? Marcus Aurelius. Most reviled? Nero,
Caligula, Domitian, Commodus.
> --- In imperialrome2@ yahoogroups. co.uk, Gerry Carter <gec12gec16@ ...>
>> I am worried. There seems to be a lack of Roman news on the group. Talk
>> about scraping the barrel, I mean to say - King Arthur and the lighthouse
>> are not our interests. Come on guys think of something to discuss. Like,
>> was Domitianus the setting sun which the Empire mistook for the dawn?
>> Tiberius - victim or hero? Who is your favorite Emperor and why? Lets
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2206 - Release Date: 06/27/09 17:55:00
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2211 - Release Date: 06/30/09 11:37:00
- View SourceOct, thanksA simple view for now. But if I were a Roman, I wd wonder how dare you defy/contradict the cult of my gods (lares etc) when we Romans have been so very willing to go along with yours. (OK, yes, we pretend to - but it will do won't it? prior to your subjugation?). All those religions you mention must have looked like like 'loony tunes' to Romans. And worse, representative of those who wd wish to disturb the eternal sunshine of our perfect Roman world order - Pax - and so require destruction/elimination.Complicated view - fact finding 'CSI' style mission to Anglesey required. On this I need to ponder further, as it really bugs me and I do not believe anything given in evidence to date.gec