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611SV: [privateer20] Re: Bilge keels, anyone?

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  • Arne Rudström
    Nov 12, 2012
      Hello Jonathan, John, Oliver and everyone,
       
      Thank you all for your advices. I have now all the options I need I guess. Oliver supported my idea and gave me some questions to think about, John suggested the idea
      of a daggerboard which was interesting, because that solution the former owner of the boat tried. You can see from my pictures on the Yahoo site how he has cut of
      the top aft part of the cb-trunk, where he put down a plywood piece 1200x200x12 mm when he had taken out the cb first. He told me that the boat sailed better with
      this simple solution. Personally I would only trust it as a pure test. In ordinary conditions you need better quality I guess.
      Jonathan´s answer is probably the one I will try to start with; " I´d try her as designed and then consider changes." Yes, it is good to read your well described sail when
      you did not find the Privateer a too bad sailingboat. It gives me hope to continue with my work to get her into the water next spring. If I then have to consider changes I will
      return to the advices I got from Oliver and John!
       
      Here in Sweden where I live the next 3-4 months do not permit a lot of work on the boat itself, but I will work on parts like the bowsprit etc. which I can do
      indoors with a higher temp. Of course I will let you know how my work goes on ( if it does?!)
       
      Thank you again for your great support!
       
      Best wishes      Arne Rudström

      Från: Jonathan Knight <jontsknight@...>
      Till: privateer20 <privateer20@...>
      Skickat: torsdag, 8 november 2012 0:33
      Ämne: Re: [privateer20] Re: Bilge keels, anyone?

       
      Hi Arne, Oliver and everyone


      I had my first sail in Geolia yesterday in the enclosed square mile of the fresh water of Cardiff Bay and I had an absolutely brilliant time.

      From my limited experience don't be put off, I don't think the designer of the boat got her that wrong.  I'd try her as designed and then consider changes. Lee boards could always be used in conjunction with the centreboard which must lower her centre of gravity slightly.

      I have owned my Privateer, Geolia for 18 months she was a bit of a mid-age crisis purchase having always wanted to own some form of day sailer. The Privateer fitted my requirements of a light trailable boat that was narrow enough for the narrow canals of the UK, she also looked very pretty as a form of gaffer. Family commitments have meant that apart from a couple of trips motoring the length of the Brecon canal last year, yesterday was my first opportunity for a proper sail having twisted the arm of  my wife to come out with me, she wasn't too keen as it is getting a bit chilly for her! Having read a lot of the correspondence about weather helm and leeway I have been worrying whether I had made a bad purchase. Art's experiments

      Conditions were clear with light winds. However the wind improved and at times we were sat out on her gunwales in true dinghy sailor fashion with her well heeled over. In my amateur opinion she sailed extremely well. On all points of the wind from running to a close reach she handled well. She didn't get as close to the wind as some boats I have sailed, however she tacked back across the bay seemingly sailing as close to the wind as another boat on the water. We suffered no weather helm. I've experienced bad weather helm in badly set up dinghies where I've been clinging on to the rudder at 30+ degrees  off direction in the endeavour to keep it on course. This was never necessary with Geolia. There was plenty of force on the rudder but nothing I wouldn't expect and she held straight. I've no idea how poor the leeway might have been however I felt we made perfectly good progress tacking back across the Bay.

      From the literature Geolia appears to be as standard so far as the rudder and centreboard are concerned.

      We had great fun rigging her. Putting in at Cardiff Bay Channel View Leisure Centre, the only public slip (charge £9)  necessitates passing under a 5m  air  space bridge. We therefore used the iron sail to get under the bridge. Once under we drifted across the bay whilst I raised the mast and rigged all sails. I like a challenge and finding another mooring was just too easy. Raising the mast was perfectly easy. It was raised by first lifting it to my shoulder at the hatch, pusshing up with one hand and then hauling on a line running from the jib stay through a block attached to the front of the bowsprit to one of the cleats by the hatch.  Someone shorter might have to stand on the seats but I found this unnecessary and it wasn't a hard pull on the line. The line was cleated off whilst I went forward first to fasten the forestay then release the line and attach the jib stay. I had practised this on land first. As the wind had picked up and it was rather choppy we cheated by using the iron sail (5hp Mariner) to keep us head to the wind whilst I raised the main. My first experience with a traditional shaped gaff and what an easy sail it is to set well, no creases and a good shape.

      In setting her up I just followed the manufacturers instructions, slight mast rake, centreboard set to about 45 degrees (no adjustment under sail though I look forward to playing) and 45kg weight added under the cockpit floor as we were only two (154kg) sailing  her. We were using a Mariner 5hp say 25kg and 15kg petrol. Looking at her I felt that she still looked a little down in the bow and am tempted to increase the ballast a little to get nearer to an average of two adults and two teenagers in the cockpit. To ensure we didn't get water coming into the cockpit through the drain hole we inserted a plug which the previous owners had also done. I wonder if she would only properly drain when under way like many dinghies.

      I have recently read A C Stock's book 'Sailing Just for Fun' in which he extols sailing a 16ft gaff rigged cruiser in the Thames Estuary. He sailed without motor, throughout the year and unlike competition sailers who have to fight tides as part of a fixed course, he sailed just for the pleasure of it sailing in harmony with tides and wind, planning his trips accordingly. If you haven't read the book its well written and for me represents exactly what I would like to achieve in sailing. His boat (which featured in a recent article in the magazine Practical Boat Owner)  though shorter than the Privateer is probably a lot heavier as built in wood and therefore possibly more seaworthy. This type of sailing is probably the forte of the Privateer.

      I look forward to trying her at sea though I'll be sticking to estuary sailing and from my little experience I have great hopes.

      regards to all Jonathan





      On 6 November 2012 08:24, Arne Rudström <arnerudstrom@...> wrote:
       
      Hello Oliver,
       
      I am a Swedish owner of the Privateer "Celena" of which I sent a few pictures to this group earlier. 
      The boat was in a bad condition when she was given to me two years ago. When I read your
      and other sailors comments on her bad sailing qualities I hesitaded if I should bother to
      restore her.
       
      But at the same time I was curious to know from my own experiences how she behaved when
      in the water. I have made a longer and retractable bowsprit to move the sail area forwards.
      I plan to have removable internal ballast (lead in concrete).
       
      When you put the question about bilge keels I thought of the Swedish sailor in small boats
      Sven Yrvind ( http://www.yrvind.com/ ) who used 15 cm high bilge keels on his rather flat bottom
      boat in which he crossed the Atlantic a year ago.
       
      But now I have decided to try another concept. I will take out the cb, close the cb trunk at the
      bottom of the hull, add extra ballast in the lower part of the cb trunk and use 2 leeboards
      instead of the cb. Asymmetric leeboards with toe in and made from plywood and perhaps
      with stringers to increase their strenght.
       
      I sail in the archipelago of the Baltic sea which is mainly in sheltered waters.
       
      What to you and others think of this?
       
      Regards     Arne Rudström



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