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  • rdiedo
    As the newest member of the group I thought it only polite to say hello! I don t own a privateer 20, but for some time have admired a small and pretty boat in
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 16, 2009
      As the newest member of the group I thought it only polite to say hello!

      I don't own a privateer 20, but for some time have admired a small and pretty boat in Rye East Sussex, which I believe is for sale and has been for a while. I didn't have a clue what it was, until finally discovering today by chance that it seems to be a privateer 20.

      I do admire the 'classic' lines and rig. I enjoy sailing and one day hope to buy a modest sailing boat myself to make the change from crew to skipper, when finances allow.

      I live in Kent not far from Rye. If and when I do manage to treat myself I envisage realistically I would be making short trips into Rye Bay, and/or possibly exploring the tidal Medway at the other side of the county.

      I rather expect the members of the privateer group to be slightly bias, but your thoughts and comments on the privateer would be much appreciated. Is she a sea boat? Sheltered waters/estuary sailing only? Were all the boats factory finished? Build quality? Things to look out for? What sort of price would you expect to pay?

      If the answers to these questions are already available elswhere a point in the right direction would be appreciated.

      Thanks and regards,

      Richard
    • Martin Wilson
      The boat is lightly built and suitable for upto moderate conditions . Crew ballast makes a wionderful difference but is not essential.   The boat is now old
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 23, 2009
        The boat is lightly built and suitable for upto moderate conditions . Crew ballast makes a wionderful difference but is not essential.  
        The boat is now old indeed classic.Her greatest area of weakness is the casing for the centreplate.  
        Look fo any sign whatsover that ther is rust coming through at the aft end of the casing or that the bilge has been painted to cover deterioration in this area. Rust at the base of the mast support strut needs fixing but is not terminal. Any probs with the casing -suggest you stay clear or take a surveyors advice .
        --- On Thu, 16/7/09, rdiedo <rdiedo@...> wrote:

        From: rdiedo <rdiedo@...>
        Subject: [privateer20] Hello
        To: privateer20@...
        Date: Thursday, 16 July, 2009, 6:34 PM

         
        As the newest member of the group I thought it only polite to say hello!

        I don't own a privateer 20, but for some time have admired a small and pretty boat in Rye East Sussex, which I believe is for sale and has been for a while. I didn't have a clue what it was, until finally discovering today by chance that it seems to be a privateer 20.

        I do admire the 'classic' lines and rig. I enjoy sailing and one day hope to buy a modest sailing boat myself to make the change from crew to skipper, when finances allow.

        I live in Kent not far from Rye. If and when I do manage to treat myself I envisage realistically I would be making short trips into Rye Bay, and/or possibly exploring the tidal Medway at the other side of the county.

        I rather expect the members of the privateer group to be slightly bias, but your thoughts and comments on the privateer would be much appreciated. Is she a sea boat? Sheltered waters/estuary sailing only? Were all the boats factory finished? Build quality? Things to look out for? What sort of price would you expect to pay?

        If the answers to these questions are already available elswhere a point in the right direction would be appreciated.

        Thanks and regards,

        Richard


      • seannorris65
        Hello everyone, I just found this group in the last few days. I am based out of Schull in Co Cork Southern Ireland. I have had my Privateer since 2002. Mine
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 19, 2011
          Hello everyone,

          I just found this group in the last few days. I am based out of Schull in Co Cork Southern Ireland. I have had my Privateer since 2002. Mine was called "Jacks and Micks" apparently after the father and father in law of a previous owner. I could not keep that name and she is now Lady Irene! I have an interesting and varied sailing ground with a mix of sheltered waters, creeks and estuaries as well as the open ocean so Lady Irene sees it all. Lady Irene has the bermudan rig with a Kemp Mast (The original I suspect)! Unfortunately due to family commitments Lady Irene has not seen water for the past two seasons however I hope to put that right next year.

          Something to note. There was a brand new Privateer here at some point in the Late 1970's but on a windy day she capsized and sank so mine was not the first to grace the harbour.
        • Oliver
          A very warm welcome to the Group. You are based in what is by all accounts an attractive area. In a year or two when your Privateer is back in the water I
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 19, 2011
            A very warm welcome to the Group.

            You are based in what is by all accounts an attractive area. In a year or two when your Privateer is back in the water I might possibly sail my one over to meet up with you. But last time I tried that, in a bigger and much more seaworthy gaff cutter, was in 1979, and we caught the start of the gale immediately preceding THE Fastnet Gale ...





            Oliver




            --- In privateer20@..., "seannorris65" <seannorris65@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello everyone,
            >
            > I just found this group in the last few days. I am based out of Schull in Co Cork Southern Ireland. I have had my Privateer since 2002. Mine was called "Jacks and Micks" apparently after the father and father in law of a previous owner. I could not keep that name and she is now Lady Irene! I have an interesting and varied sailing ground with a mix of sheltered waters, creeks and estuaries as well as the open ocean so Lady Irene sees it all. Lady Irene has the bermudan rig with a Kemp Mast (The original I suspect)! Unfortunately due to family commitments Lady Irene has not seen water for the past two seasons however I hope to put that right next year.
            >
            > Something to note. There was a brand new Privateer here at some point in the Late 1970's but on a windy day she capsized and sank so mine was not the first to grace the harbour.
            >
          • Oliver
            ... in the Late 1970 s but on a windy day she capsized and sank so mine was not the first to grace the harbour. ... Thank you for that useful word of warning.
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 19, 2011
              --- In privateer20@..., "seannorris65" <seannorris65@...> wrote:
              >
              > Something to note. There was a brand new Privateer here at some point in the Late 1970's but on a windy day she capsized and sank so mine was not the first to grace the harbour.
              >




              Thank you for that useful word of warning.

              That confirms my own intuitive impressions from sailing my one, coupled with the fact that they have only about half the displacement of comparable boats such as the Cornish Shrimper and the Cape Cutter 19; unlike most cruising yachts, Privateers can capsize, and must always be sailed in such a way that they are not allowed to do so.

              The latter is down to the seamanship of the skipper and/or (if different) the helmsman.






              Oliver

            • John Clark
              ... Thank you for that useful word of warning. That confirms my own intuitive impressions from sailing my one, coupled with the fact that they have only about
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 20, 2011


                 



                 
                --- In privateer20@..., "seannorris65" <seannorris65@...> wrote:
                >
                > Something to note. There was a brand new Privateer here at some point in the Late 1970's but on a windy day she capsized and sank so mine was not the first to grace the harbour.
                >




                Thank you for that useful word of warning.


                That confirms my own intuitive impressions from sailing my one, coupled with the fact that they have only about half the displacement of comparable boats such as the Cornish Shrimper and the Cape Cutter 19; unlike most cruising yachts, Privateers can capsize, and must always be sailed in such a way that they are not allowed to do so.
                The latter is down to the seamanship of the skipper and/or (if different) the helmsman.


                Oliver 

                ..... Hi Oliver ...... and your tips for a novice who is about to launch his Privateer are? ..... 

                John ..... Privateer Rosie and nb Charlotte Rose


                _,_._,___
              • John Clark
                Hello and welcome to the group John Privateer Rosie and nb Charlotte Rose Hello everyone, I just found this group in the last few days. I am based out of
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 20, 2011

                  Hello and welcome to the group

                  John  Privateer Rosie and nb Charlotte Rose
                   

                   
                  Hello everyone,

                  I just found this group in the last few days. I am based out of Schull in Co Cork Southern Ireland. I have had my Privateer since 2002. Mine was called "Jacks and Micks" apparently after the father and father in law of a previous owner. I could not keep that name and she is now Lady Irene! I have an interesting and varied sailing ground with a mix of sheltered waters, creeks and estuaries as well as the open ocean so Lady Irene sees it all. Lady Irene has the bermudan rig with a Kemp Mast (The original I suspect)! Unfortunately due to family commitments Lady Irene has not seen water for the past two seasons however I hope to put that right next year.

                  Something to note. There was a brand new Privateer here at some point in the Late 1970's but on a windy day she capsized and sank so mine was not the first to grace the harbour.


                • Oliver
                  ... Desperately pushed for time at the moment, but will try to get back to you when the pressure eases. Meanwhile a quick point, dealing only with avoiding
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 20, 2011
                    --- In privateer20@..., John Clark <john768@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you for that useful word of warning.
                    >
                    > That confirms my own intuitive impressions from sailing my one, coupled with the fact that they have only about half the displacement of comparable boats such as the Cornish Shrimper and the Cape Cutter 19; unlike most cruising yachts, Privateers can capsize, and must always be sailed in such a way that they are not allowed to do so.The latter is down to the seamanship of the skipper and/or (if different) the helmsman.
                    >
                    > Oliver
                    >
                    >
                    > ..... Hi Oliver ...... and your tips for a novice who is about to launch his Privateer are? .....
                    > John ..... Privateer Rosie and nb Charlotte Rose
                    >


                    Desperately pushed for time at the moment, but will try to get back to you when the pressure eases.

                    Meanwhile a quick point, dealing only with avoiding capsize.

                    Regard her as a "dinghy with a lid" rather than a yacht, and sail her as a big dinghy. So if wind is such that she starts heeling a lot, consider either easing sheets or shortening sail, the latter primarily by reefing.

                    It is well worth having all your mainsail reefing lines and your main halliard/s led back to the cockpit, so that you can reef without needing to leave the security of the cockpit; if you have roller reefing for the headsails (or can afford to install it) that is also a boon, particularly if you have the big Yankee jib.

                    Read up the information in the designer's instructions (in both the Files and photos section of this site) on use of teh drop keel in particular; it is NOT quite what one would expect - us it primarily as a trim tab, so in normal sailing you should have it very less far down than one would normally expect, but you will still need some. It may pay to mark the rope, so that you have a visual indicator of how much keel you have down.

                    Worth, when possible, taking someone experienced afloat with you until you are sure of both your skills and the boat. Worth also, when opportunities arise, doing one of the many courses of instruction, run by sailing clubs, sailing schools, and others. Welcome to a lifetime of learning; I am still learning, most times I go out, even after a total of well over 50 years on the water ...

                    Don't believe that you can't learn from books; they aren't enough on their own, but there is a wealth of sailing techniques and seamanship that can be learned from books, and then tried out in practice.

                    Apart from that, start gently, keep withi8n your personal limitations, and go out and enjoy!





                    Oliver
                  • John Clark
                    Many thanks for you prompt response Oliver John ... Desperately pushed for time at the moment, but will try to get back to you when the pressure eases.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 20, 2011

                      Many thanks for you prompt response Oliver

                      John
                       



                       


                      --- In privateer20@..., John Clark <john768@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Thank you for that useful word of warning.
                      >
                      > That confirms my own intuitive impressions from sailing my one, coupled with the fact that they have only about half the displacement of comparable boats such as the Cornish Shrimper and the Cape Cutter 19; unlike most cruising yachts, Privateers can capsize, and must always be sailed in such a way that they are not allowed to do so.The latter is down to the seamanship of the skipper and/or (if different) the helmsman.
                      >
                      > Oliver
                      >
                      >
                      > ..... Hi Oliver ...... and your tips for a novice who is about to launch his Privateer are? .....
                      > John ..... Privateer Rosie and nb Charlotte Rose
                      >

                      Desperately pushed for time at the moment, but will try to get back to you when the pressure eases.

                      Meanwhile a quick point, dealing only with avoiding capsize.

                      Regard her as a "dinghy with a lid" rather than a yacht, and sail her as a big dinghy. So if wind is such that she starts heeling a lot, consider either easing sheets or shortening sail, the latter primarily by reefing.

                      It is well worth having all your mainsail reefing lines and your main halliard/s led back to the cockpit, so that you can reef without needing to leave the security of the cockpit; if you have roller reefing for the headsails (or can afford to install it) that is also a boon, particularly if you have the big Yankee jib.

                      Read up the information in the designer's instructions (in both the Files and photos section of this site) on use of teh drop keel in particular; it is NOT quite what one would expect - us it primarily as a trim tab, so in normal sailing you should have it very less far down than one would normally expect, but you will still need some. It may pay to mark the rope, so that you have a visual indicator of how much keel you have down.

                      Worth, when possible, taking someone experienced afloat with you until you are sure of both your skills and the boat. Worth also, when opportunities arise, doing one of the many courses of instruction, run by sailing clubs, sailing schools, and others. Welcome to a lifetime of learning; I am still learning, most times I go out, even after a total of well over 50 years on the water ...

                      Don't believe that you can't learn from books; they aren't enough on their own, but there is a wealth of sailing techniques and seamanship that can be learned from books, and then tried out in practice.

                      Apart from that, start gently, keep withi8n your personal limitations, and go out and enjoy!

                      Oliver


                    • seannorris65
                      I replaced my sails three years ago and when advising the sail maker of my sail habits this is what I told him. -Up to 10 knots full sail. -10 to 15 Knots if I
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 28, 2011
                        I replaced my sails three years ago and when advising the sail maker of my sail habits this is what I told him.

                        -Up to 10 knots full sail.
                        -10 to 15 Knots if I am felling energetic both Jibs and a deep reefed (double reefed main) of if lazy just the the two jibs.
                        -15 to 19 knots the two jibs only
                        -@ 20 knots the boat either stays on the mooring or I use the engine (my preference is to stay on the mooring!).

                        My experience of the Privateer is that she is not a textbook sailing boat. for instance convention for shortening sail on a cutter rig is to take down the inner jib before reefing the main. I tried this but the boat felt dead and lacked power so instead I settled on the double reefing option to shorten sail and I find the boat nicely balanced when this is done. Also it is vital to always have the main sheet whether using a full or reefed main in your hand to dump it quickly if required. I also found that in the wind range 8-12 knots before I shorten sail that she sails quite well with the mainsheet well eased to the point that the main sail from the luff to almost 50% back to the leech is inverted or has a back bubble. It looks aweful but it works!

                        --- In privateer20@..., John Clark <john768@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Many thanks for you prompt response Oliver
                        > John
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In privateer20@..., John Clark <john768@> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > Thank you for that useful word of warning.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > That confirms my own intuitive impressions from sailing my one, coupled with the fact that they have only about half the displacement of comparable boats such as the Cornish Shrimper and the Cape Cutter 19; unlike most cruising yachts, Privateers can capsize, and must always be sailed in such a way that they are not allowed to do so.The latter is down to the seamanship of the skipper and/or (if different) the helmsman.
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > Oliver
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > ..... Hi Oliver ...... and your tips for a novice who is about to launch his Privateer are? .....
                        >
                        > > John ..... Privateer Rosie and nb Charlotte Rose
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Desperately pushed for time at the moment, but will try to get back to you when the pressure eases.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Meanwhile a quick point, dealing only with avoiding capsize.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Regard her as a "dinghy with a lid" rather than a yacht, and sail her as a big dinghy. So if wind is such that she starts heeling a lot, consider either easing sheets or shortening sail, the latter primarily by reefing.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > It is well worth having all your mainsail reefing lines and your main halliard/s led back to the cockpit, so that you can reef without needing to leave the security of the cockpit; if you have roller reefing for the headsails (or can afford to install it) that is also a boon, particularly if you have the big Yankee jib.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Read up the information in the designer's instructions (in both the Files and photos section of this site) on use of teh drop keel in particular; it is NOT quite what one would expect - us it primarily as a trim tab, so in normal sailing you should have it very less far down than one would normally expect, but you will still need some. It may pay to mark the rope, so that you have a visual indicator of how much keel you have down.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Worth, when possible, taking someone experienced afloat with you until you are sure of both your skills and the boat. Worth also, when opportunities arise, doing one of the many courses of instruction, run by sailing clubs, sailing schools, and others. Welcome to a lifetime of learning; I am still learning, most times I go out, even after a total of well over 50 years on the water ...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Don't believe that you can't learn from books; they aren't enough on their own, but there is a wealth of sailing techniques and seamanship that can be learned from books, and then tried out in practice.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Apart from that, start gently, keep withi8n your personal limitations, and go out and enjoy!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Oliver
                        >
                      • Oliver
                        ... Most interesting; I must try that myself. I totally agree that the Privateer is not a textbook sailing boat, either in general terms or specifically as
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 30, 2011
                          --- In privateer20@..., "seannorris65" <seannorris65@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I replaced my sails three years ago and when advising the sail maker of my sail habits this is what I told him.
                          >
                          > -Up to 10 knots full sail.
                          > -10 to 15 Knots if I am felling energetic both Jibs and a deep reefed (double reefed main) of if lazy just the the two jibs.
                          > -15 to 19 knots the two jibs only
                          > -@ 20 knots the boat either stays on the mooring or I use the engine (my preference is to stay on the mooring!).
                          >
                          > My experience of the Privateer is that she is not a textbook sailing boat. for instance convention for shortening sail on a cutter rig is to take down the inner jib before reefing the main. I tried this but the boat felt dead and lacked power so instead I settled on the double reefing option to shorten sail and I find the boat nicely balanced when this is done. Also it is vital to always have the main sheet whether using a full or reefed main in your hand to dump it quickly if required. I also found that in the wind range 8-12 knots before I shorten sail that she sails quite well with the mainsheet well eased to the point that the main sail from the luff to almost 50% back to the leech is inverted or has a back bubble. It looks aweful but it works!
                          >




                          Most interesting; I must try that myself.

                          I totally agree that the Privateer is not a textbook sailing boat, either in general terms or specifically as a gaff cutter, and it is very much a matter of learning the particular boat.

                          For those, like myself, who are more familiar with Beaufort scale than with wind speeds in knots, a translation:

                          7-10 knots - force 3
                          11-15 knots - force 4
                          16-20 knots - force 5

                          So:

                          -Up to force 3, full sail.
                          -Force 4, if feeling energetic both Jibs and a deep reefed (double reefed) main, or if lazy just the the two jibs.
                          -Force 5, the two jibs only.
                          -Above force 5, the boat either stays on the mooring or use the engine (preference is to stay on the mooring!).

                          And:
                          Around top of force 3 / bottom of force 4, instead of shortening sail she sails quite well with the mainsheet well eased, as described.



                          Oliver
                        • seannorris65
                          Oliver, I should point out that Lady Irene is a Bermudian rig so obviously the gaff rigger may behalf differently. On the wind speed I also moonlight as a
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 2, 2011
                            Oliver, I should point out that Lady Irene is a Bermudian rig so obviously the gaff rigger may behalf differently. On the wind speed I also "moonlight" as a racing crew (less often now through as a semi fit person in the mid 40's is not much use on board most race boats)hence the use of Knts rather than beaufort scale. I measured the windspeeds using a hand held windspeed monitor.

                            --- In privateer20@..., "Oliver" <oliver_shaw@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In privateer20@..., "seannorris65" <seannorris65@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I replaced my sails three years ago and when advising the sail maker of my sail habits this is what I told him.
                            > >
                            > > -Up to 10 knots full sail.
                            > > -10 to 15 Knots if I am felling energetic both Jibs and a deep reefed (double reefed main) of if lazy just the the two jibs.
                            > > -15 to 19 knots the two jibs only
                            > > -@ 20 knots the boat either stays on the mooring or I use the engine (my preference is to stay on the mooring!).
                            > >
                            > > My experience of the Privateer is that she is not a textbook sailing boat. for instance convention for shortening sail on a cutter rig is to take down the inner jib before reefing the main. I tried this but the boat felt dead and lacked power so instead I settled on the double reefing option to shorten sail and I find the boat nicely balanced when this is done. Also it is vital to always have the main sheet whether using a full or reefed main in your hand to dump it quickly if required. I also found that in the wind range 8-12 knots before I shorten sail that she sails quite well with the mainsheet well eased to the point that the main sail from the luff to almost 50% back to the leech is inverted or has a back bubble. It looks aweful but it works!
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Most interesting; I must try that myself.
                            >
                            > I totally agree that the Privateer is not a textbook sailing boat, either in general terms or specifically as a gaff cutter, and it is very much a matter of learning the particular boat.
                            >
                            > For those, like myself, who are more familiar with Beaufort scale than with wind speeds in knots, a translation:
                            >
                            > 7-10 knots - force 3
                            > 11-15 knots - force 4
                            > 16-20 knots - force 5
                            >
                            > So:
                            >
                            > -Up to force 3, full sail.
                            > -Force 4, if feeling energetic both Jibs and a deep reefed (double reefed) main, or if lazy just the the two jibs.
                            > -Force 5, the two jibs only.
                            > -Above force 5, the boat either stays on the mooring or use the engine (preference is to stay on the mooring!).
                            >
                            > And:
                            > Around top of force 3 / bottom of force 4, instead of shortening sail she sails quite well with the mainsheet well eased, as described.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Oliver
                            >
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