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My Story (and electrics)

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  • 5b9d24da16c123262ee0971e30fb91aa
    Good evening guys. I am new to this group so please bear with me. I have recently been given my grandparents old boat; a privateer 20 called Beau Vista. This
    Message 1 of 20 , May 8, 2017

      Good evening guys. I am new to this group so please bear with me.


      I have recently been given my grandparents old boat; a privateer 20 called Beau Vista. This boat was bought from new from factory. I have traced down the dates from the original documents and believe she was built between 14th April - 15th May 1975. The name "Beau Vista" was taken from my great grandparents property, which when they passed away was sold. The money from the property was used to buy the boat (back then £1800).


      Over the years some small modifications have been made to her. She has had shelving put up, different headling, and wiring added.


      With my grandparents now retired and unable to carry out any major restoration Beau Vista has sat on her trailer for the past 20 years. Naturally fabrics have faded, anti-fouling is flaking off, some of the wood is now unprotected and has signs of rot.


      I intend to lightly restore her back to near original condition, although I will update the electrics (including fitting a VHF radio), fit new headlining and give her a general tidy up


      My original question (appoligies for the waffling) is that I intent to add a switchboard to control all the master electcis (i.e. Horn, exterior and interior light and radios). Where is the best place for this? Where is the best place for the battery and how big a battery do I need?

      The previous switchboard was attached to a rotten shelf which I am removing, and I do not really want to convert the porta potti moulding to a chart/ electrical housing unit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


      If you have any suggestions on the restoration or ideas. Perhaps tips on jobs you have done before?


      Attached are some pictures taken from 6 months ago





      William



    • olivershaw4229
      What a nice gift from your grandparents! Unfortunately, for reasons that I fail to understand, none of us are able to include attachments to posts, not even
      Message 2 of 20 , May 8, 2017

        What a nice gift from your grandparents!

        Unfortunately,  for reasons that I fail to understand,  none of us are able to include attachments to posts,  not even myself (as Senior Moderator),  even though I can find nothing in the Group Settings which precludes this.   So your photos have not come through.

        To get round this,  purely temporarily,  I have created a photo album for you,  Beau Vista,  and uploaded your photos there.    The only problem with that is that the album is necessarily in my name,  so you don't have control of it.   If you wish,  I can delete it and you can then create your own album,  in your own name,  and upload your photos;   or you may be happy to leave the album as it is,  the choice is yours.

        I will reply to your queries later.



        Oliver

      • 5b9d24da16c123262ee0971e30fb91aa
        Hi Oliver, That s fine, only just discovered the photo page, looks good :) William
        Message 3 of 20 , May 8, 2017
          Hi Oliver,

          That's fine, only just discovered the photo page, looks good :)

          William
        • Tony Glover
          Hi William Just had a look at the photos you posted. She looks clean and tidy for a 42 year old. I m half way through my restoration and just finishing off the
          Message 4 of 20 , May 8, 2017
            Hi William
            Just had a look at the photos you posted.
            She looks clean and tidy for a 42 year old.

            I'm half way through my restoration and just finishing off the electrics.
            I've managed to fit (just) a low height (190mm) 100ah battery in the locker under the cabin sole along with the isolation switch.

            I've placed a 12v six switch fuse / switch panel under the side combing (above the quarter berth) facing into the cabin on the port side and a twin pole RCD breaker, socket and battery charger on the starboard side. Neither protrude into the cabin space but can be seen easily / accessed.

            I've used LED lighting below decks and some LED nav lights above. I've worked out their consumption along with the VHF & instruments and think the power drain will be well within spec. 

            Just in case, I've installed the 230v mains hook-up in the lazerette, a new 6hp Tohatsu outboard delivering 5a and a couple of 60w solar panels on the coach roof so hopefully, that'll keep the battery charged up. If not, there's room for 2nd 100ah battery under the cockpit sole (in case I'm instructed to install a TV, washing m/c, tumble drier etc!)

            The charging cables run in conduit down the starboard side of the companionway and the 25sq mm 12v supply cables run up the port side to the fuse panel.  All these will be hidden once the headlining goes in.

            The Boat Safety Scheme inspector seems happy with the installation so I'll apply for the certificate once everything else is done.

            I'll post some photos when I get a chance.

            Hope your restoration goes well.

            Tony G

            On 8 May 2017 at 19:30, williamstainer@... [privateer20] <privateer20@...> wrote:
             

            Good evening guys. I am new to this group so please bear with me.


            I have recently been given my grandparents old boat; a privateer 20 called Beau Vista. This boat was bought from new from factory. I have traced down the dates from the original documents and believe she was built between 14th April - 15th May 1975. The name "Beau Vista" was taken from my great grandparents property, which when they passed away was sold. The money from the property was used to buy the boat (back then £1800).


            Over the years some small modifications have been made to her. She has had shelving put up, different headling, and wiring added.


            With my grandparents now retired and unable to carry out any major restoration Beau Vista has sat on her trailer for the past 20 years. Naturally fabrics have faded, anti-fouling is flaking off, some of the wood is now unprotected and has signs of rot.


            I intend to lightly restore her back to near original condition, although I will update the electrics (including fitting a VHF radio), fit new headlining and give her a general tidy up


            My original question (appoligies for the waffling) is that I intent to add a switchboard to control all the master electcis (i.e. Horn, exterior and interior light and radios). Where is the best place for this? Where is the best place for the battery and how big a battery do I need?

            The previous switchboard was attached to a rotten shelf which I am removing, and I do not really want to convert the porta potti moulding to a chart/ electrical housing unit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


            If you have any suggestions on the restoration or ideas. Perhaps tips on jobs you have done before?


            Attached are some pictures taken from 6 months ago





            William




          • 5b9d24da16c123262ee0971e30fb91aa
            Tony, Thanks, yeah generally speaking not too bad as my grandparents managed to keep her under cover fairly well. There is a little damage bow end which i need
            Message 5 of 20 , May 8, 2017
              Tony,

              Thanks, yeah generally speaking not too bad as my grandparents managed to keep her under cover fairly well. There is a little damage bow end which i need to investigate further. I notice a lot of other Privateers have there electronics screwed to either the port or starboard bulkhead facing inwards. 

              Where did you managed to get those low height battery? I was going to store the battery there but initially thought there was no room.



              On a completely different note you wouldn't happen to know where i might be able to get some rubber seals for the windows? mine are a little perished, will i have to make my own?

              Good luck with your restoration as well hopefully see it on the water soon

              William
            • olivershaw4229
              William, Various issues arise; too many for one post. ... I fully concur with the advice given a few posts back, to use LED lights throughout, both for
              Message 6 of 20 , May 9, 2017
                William,

                Various issues arise;  too many for one post.


                > I will update the electrics (including fitting a VHF radio)

                I fully concur with the advice given a few posts back,  to use LED lights throughout,  both for cabin lighting and navigation lights.    LED technology has advanced in leaps and bounds over the last fifty-odd years;   when I was a student LEDs were in their infancy,  with gallium arsenide diodes the only type,  emitting only in the infrared,  and with dismally low output;  but look were we have got to now,  around 55 years later.   The saving in battery drain with modern LEDs is phenomenal,  and they are just as bright as their conventional equivalents.



                Electronics:

                You could spend a small fortune on electronics,  but you don't need all of it yet,  although some may well remain an aspiration for the future.   I offer the following as my personal order of priority.



                Top Priority:

                1= A means of signalling distress;   this doesn't have to be electronic,  and flares can be used instead,  but electronic methods are safer and more reliable,  as well as being cheaper in the long term (and not desperately more expensive even in the short term).   And flares have a serious disposal problem at the end of their short (3 years) life.



                Thereafter:

                1=  VHF hand-held radio,  worn on the person,  and secured by a lanyard.    Preferably waterproof (immersible),  and it is a minor benefit if it floats.    Note that I put a hand-held set very much higher than a fixed set,  because it can be worn on the person;    if you go overboard and get separated from the boat,  as happened to me in 2005,  it is not much help to you if the only radio is still on board.
                Icom has been described as the professionals' choice,  and certainly both my club and I personally have been very well served by our Icom sets.   Standard Horizon are another popular make,  not as expensive as Icom,  and seem to work well,  although I have heard comments that their controls are not as intuitive and not as easy to use.

                There are various other very well known makes,  which I presume are good,   including Lowrance,  possibly Raymarine (although I am not sure whether they do hand-helds),  and the top end of the Cobra range.

                Entry level sets (e.g. the bottom end of the Cobra range) are comparatively cheap,  at around £60,  but may not be waterproof (so you then need to add an Aquapack to hold the set,  at additional expense),  and may not have channels M1 (a,k,a, 37A) and M2 (a.k.a. P4) which you may want from time to time for communication with clubs and marinas and occasionally (just once in my personal experience) for direct communication with lifeboats.   But an entry level set will get you started,  and the money is not wasted when you later upgrade;  the cheaper set then becomes your emergency reserve,  perhaps living in your grab bag.

                3.  A depth sounder.   You need a means of establishing the depth of water,  and in the short term you could manage with a hand lead instead,  but for speed and convenience electronics is the way to go.



                Beyond that:

                4.  If you intend sailing outside your immediate patch,  a chartplotter.   Ideally one that runs Galileo (the European satellite navigation constellation) and Glosnas (the Russian one) as well as GPS (the American system),  and many modern ones will all three systems;   but one that runs only GPS,  which was the first operational system that is still in use,  will serve you very well indeed for the overwhelming majority of the time.

                5.  A distance log,  and preferably one that displays speed as well.   This doesn't have to be electronic,  and a mechanical system is fine,  but I am not aware of any mechanical ones still in production  -  although secondhand ones do crop up on eBay and in boat jumbles and elsewhere from time to time.

                6.   If you would otherwise be carrying flares,  a personal locator beacon (PLB) or alternatively an EPIRB for signalling distress is a better alternative,  and the priority for the electronic option falls to 6.   But if you choose not to carry flares the priority is joint 1. 

                7.  An Electronic Visual Distress Signal (EVDS) for "final mile" homing in once the SAR asset is on scene and looking for you.    Arguably this should also be joint first priority,  except that hand-held red flares can be used for this purpose  -  with all the benefits but also the serious limitations of flares  -  and other alternatives can usually be improvised on the spot if needed,  albeit less good.

                8  A radar transponder,  to help ships to see you.   Until 2 years ago I had thought that a top quality radar reflector was sufficient,  until I called up a ship about a mile away  -  in excellent conditions  -  to ask them to check whether they could see me on radar;   the answer was "Not yet,  but give me a couple of minutes to re-tune the set".   And than,  a couple of minutes later,  "We can just see you,  with difficulty."   In private conversation with Tom Cunliffe last November he commented that he was not surprised,  and we agreed that a radar transponder would give a much stronger return signal,  but there is then the problem of battery drain.   Tom greatly liked my proposed system of a transponder controlled by a switch in the cockpit,  to be switched on only when in the presence of shipping or in waters where shipping is to be expected.

                9.   A fixed VHF radio,  preferably with DSC and with built-in GPS,   and possibly with AIS also.     The only reason this is left to last is that I am assuming you will already have a hand-held one,  and my experience is that on the vast majority of occasions a good hand-held one is sufficient.




                Oliver

              • olivershaw4229
                For some obscure reason Yahoo has hidden the majority of this post. Click on the grey prompt See message history to see the remainder! Oliver
                Message 7 of 20 , May 9, 2017
                  For some obscure reason Yahoo has hidden the majority of this post.

                  Click on the grey prompt "See message history" to see the remainder!



                  Oliver

                • 5b9d24da16c123262ee0971e30fb91aa
                  Hi Oliver, Wow lots of helpful information and advice. Thank you With regards to safety i already have most safety equipment (life rafts, buoyancy aids, life
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 9, 2017
                    Hi Oliver,

                    Wow lots of helpful information and advice. Thank you

                    With regards to safety i already have most safety equipment (life rafts, buoyancy aids, life jackets). these have accumulated over the year from previous boats my family have had. However i do not have a set of distress flares so these will be top priory for me. How essential is a P.L.B if i have a radio and flares?

                    After a bit of research I think i can stretch to both a fixed and handheld VHF radio, along with a couple of other instruments such as depth sounder and a perhaps chart plotter, although initially i do not plan to venture to far from home (i may be tempted to join meet ups in the future?)

                    Getting away from the electronics issue, do you happen to know where i may be able to obtain rubber seals for the windows? will i have to make some of my own. i have a hunch that the starboard side window is leaking


                  • olivershaw4229
                    ... Do be aware that modern inflatable lifejackets are built to a very high standard but have a limited life. They should be serviced annually, and most
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 10, 2017
                      >   I already have most safety equipment (life rafts, buoyancy aids, life jackets


                      Do be aware that modern inflatable lifejackets are built to a very high standard but have a limited life.    They should be serviced annually,  and most service agents will not re-certify a lifejacket more than ten years old.



                      >  However I do not have a set of distress flares so these will be top priory for me. How essential is a P.L.B if i have a radio and flares?

                      By all means,  if that is your choice;   but I did try to steer you away from pyrotechnic flares in favour of electronic alternatives.

                      To put it bluntly,  flares are expensive,  of limited effectiveness,  potentially very dangerous,  they have quite a short shelf life (three years) and at the end of that time they are difficult to dispose of (legally).   Oh,  yes,  and they cannot be tested prior to use.

                      Their effectiveness totally depends on someone happening to be looking in the right direction during the very short burn time (typically just two minutes),  and if that person happens to be a landsman they also depend on him or her recognising that what they are seeing is a distress signal,  and then realising that they personally need to alert the authorities because it is possible that no-one else will have seen it.   If you are too far from the coast,  or from whoever happens to be looking in your direction,   hand-held flares may well not be seen,   which is why the initial alert should be signalled by parachute flares;   but if you happen to have a low cloud base the parachute flares will disappear into the clouds and may also not be seen ...   ...

                      It is far from unknown for flares to misfire,  even when within date and in apparently good condition,  and to then cause fires or injury or both.    This is highlighted by a well publicised case a few years back when a Yachtmaster Instructor was demonstrating the correct use of flares to his class by firing a white (collision avoidance) flare,  so one may assume that he knew how to use it safely and correctly and that he was doing everything right;   however the  flare misfired,  with the result that he shot himself in the stomach.

                      Need I say more?  ....

                      Go for electronics;   very much more effective,  very much safer,  the system can be routinely tested,  it puts you in direct communication with the Coastguard and with whatever SAR asset comes to your assistance,  doesn't need replacing every three years,   all that needs routine replacement are the batteries.   Etc.,  etc.    Total cost,  at entry level,  is not significantly more than an offshore flare pack,  and the ongoing running cost is minimal:    plenty of PLBs at under £200,  and a Cobra entry level hand-held VHF at under £60,  compared with an Ikaros Coastal Flare Pack at £115 or Ikaros Offshore Flare Pack at  £227,  either of which latter two would have to be scrapped and replaced after three years.   (All priced online this morning,  at Force 4 Chandlery.)
                       
                      But do regard one system or the other as essential.   Your choice which.

                      If cost is an issue,  which it is for most of us,  I really would go for a hand-held radio,  preferably a good one (if affordable) rather than an entry-level one,  and leave the fixed radio for a future upgrade when funds permit.

                      I will try to get back to you on the rubber window seals;   I need at some stage to replace my own windows,  or get the job done professionally (which at my time of life I might prefer).    I have the impression that there are several sources of supply of such mouldings,  and although the precise one may be no longer available I am sure that a current equivalent can be found.    But I have yet to do the research for this.




                      Oliver



                    • olivershaw4229
                      ... As a purely temporary repair, I managed to stop the leaks in my window seals by the judicious use of silicone sealant to fill the gaps. Polysulphide
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 10, 2017
                        > I will try to get back to you on the rubber window seals;   I need at some stage to replace my own windows,  or get the job done professionally (which at my time of life I might prefer).   


                        As a purely temporary repair,  I managed to stop the leaks in my window seals by the judicious use of silicone sealant to fill the gaps.    Polysulphide sealant is probably still better,  as it doesn't harden.




                        Oliver
                      • olivershaw4229
                        As an adjunct to that, if you have a VHF radio - preferably hand-held and worn on the person - supplemented by a mobile phone for inland and estuary
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 10, 2017
                          As an adjunct to that,   if you have a VHF radio  -  preferably hand-held and worn on the person  -  supplemented by a mobile phone for inland and estuary sailing,  then it is very likely that in an inshore distress situation that is all you will need.   Everything else is a backup.

                          But for inshore and some estuary sailing there will be areas where there is no VHF coverage,  and the further inland you go the greater the likelihood of this.   So you do need a mobile phone in these areas to supplement the VHF.   Just as VHF is the primary means of distress and safety communication at sea,  with mobile phone a poor second (and not always available),  so the reverse can sometimes be the case inland.   And do keep the mobile phone in a waterproof (fully immersible) pack,  such as an Aquapack,  or use a floating phone.



                          Oliver
                        • Jonathan Knight
                          Hi At some point I intend replacing my windows though any leakage is extremely small. However they are rather hazy. I propose following the modern approach,
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 10, 2017
                            Hi

                            At some point I intend replacing my windows though any leakage is extremely small. However they are rather hazy. I propose following the modern approach, doing away with the rubber gasket and cut a window slightly larger than the opening and glue and screw the window to the glassfibre. I seem to recall that rubber gasket windows were criticised for potentially blowing into boats under the pressure of a wave. 
                            Done well with nicely polished perspex it could look fine.
                            Regards Jonathan

                            Regards Jonathan

                            On 10 May 2017 08:52, "acapella13934@... [privateer20]" <privateer20@...> wrote:
                             

                            As an adjunct to that,   if you have a VHF radio  -  preferably hand-held and worn on the person  -  supplemented by a mobile phone for inland and estuary sailing,  then it is very likely that in an inshore distress situation that is all you will need.   Everything else is a backup.

                            But for inshore and some estuary sailing there will be areas where there is no VHF coverage,  and the further inland you go the greater the likelihood of this.   So you do need a mobile phone in these areas to supplement the VHF.   Just as VHF is the primary means of distress and safety communication at sea,  with mobile phone a poor second (and not always available),  so the reverse can sometimes be the case inland.   And do keep the mobile phone in a waterproof (fully immersible) pack,  such as an Aquapack,  or use a floating phone.



                            Oliver

                          • olivershaw4229
                            ... Very good point indeed. Obvious when you think about it; it must be much stronger, and it largely removes the need for storm boards to protect the
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 10, 2017
                              >  I propose following the modern approach, doing away with the rubber gasket and cut a window slightly larger than the opening and glue and screw the window to the glassfibre. I seem to recall that rubber gasket windows were criticised for potentially blowing into boats under the pressure of a wave. 



                              Very good point indeed.

                              Obvious when you think about it;   it must be much stronger,  and it largely removes the need for storm boards to protect the windows in severe conditions.    Storm boards are something that I have long been aware of,  and from time to time I have vaguely thought about making a set,  but have never got round to it,  primarily because with the sort of sailing that I normally do the boat is not exposed to the sort of conditions which would make storm boards relevant.

                              Of course one would need a suitable sealant to ensure that the joint between Perspex and cabin side is watertight.

                              My previous yacht,  a 1912 25-ft gaff cutter,  had nice circular brass-bound portholes,  three each side,   which appeared to be massively strong.    Or.  more correctly,  two each side were properly constructed,  with a decent thickness of glass properly encased in a brass housing,  with a broad flange to the housing on the outside of the cabin trunk;  and these four were indeed massively strong.     However the third one on each side was the Achilles heel;   externally it looked the same as the others,  but what appeared to be the flange was only a separate brass ring,  there was no housing round the glass,  and the glass was merely pressed into place and retained by mastic!    However despite sailing through occasional full gales those two vulnerable ports were never put to the test.    I did wonder about making storm boards for them,  but again I never got round to doing so.



                              Oliver
                            • 5b9d24da16c123262ee0971e30fb91aa
                              Removed the boat winch at the weekend. Sadly rotted through so just looking for a new one. I m aware of the working capacity and breaking capacity however
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 15, 2017
                                Removed the boat winch at the weekend. Sadly rotted through so just looking for a new one. I'm aware of the "working capacity" and "breaking capacity" however the only winches I've found so far have a working capacity of 500kg and breaking capacity of 1500kg. 500kg seems a little too small? Or with the effect of the rollers compensate?

                                William
                              • olivershaw4229
                                ... The links below (three different and unrelated firms) may be helpful. I don t know what size you require, because it will depend to some extent on your
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 15, 2017
                                  > the only winches I've found so far have a working capacity of 500kg and breaking capacity of 1500kg.



                                  The links below (three different and unrelated firms) may be helpful.

                                  I don't know what size you require,  because it will depend to some extent on your particular situation;  it is not a set figure for the class of boat.    Ultimately only trial and error will determine the choice absolutely.

                                  At one end of the scale,  if you wade the trailer deep enough to simply float the boat on and your beach or slipway is almost horizontal you don't need a winch at all;   at the other end of the scale if you load from minimum depth and on a steep slipway you need a moderately powerful one.

                                  Even if you strip the boat right down to bare minimum weight for towing,  that is likely to be after you have recovered her onto her trailer;    when she actually comes out of the water onto the trailer she will be loaded as for sailing;   engine mounted,  fuel and stores aboard,  and any additional ballast fitted.

                                  If the trailer has rollers throughout she will roll on very much more easily than if you have traditional fabric covered bunks.    However I was looking at an outfit over the weekend whose owner has just had new bunks fitted,  with a Teflon coated covering,  and he claims that the boat slides beautifully easily on that;  but I have no first-hand experience of it myself.

                                  If in doubt,  go for a size larger than you think you need,  rather than anything smaller than you think you might need.    On my own trailer I replaced the winch which came with the trailer in favour of a larger one (two-speed) because I found that I needed the extra power.

                                  I will try to identify my own winch next time I am down at the boat.



                                  http://www.liverpoolpowerboats.co.uk/boats_ProductList.asp?t=trailers&sub=138&subname=SPARES / ACCESSORIES&ProductType=Winches&id=190







                                  Hope this is helpful,



                                  Oliver


                                • olivershaw4229
                                  ... Because my usual slipway is almost horizontal, and the boat carries extra ballast, I need seriously good winching arrangements. I believe I have now
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 15, 2017
                                    > I will try to identify my own winch next time I am down at the boat.




                                    Because my usual slipway is almost horizontal,  and the boat carries extra ballast,  I need seriously good winching arrangements.

                                    I believe I have now identified the winch on my trailer,  from my online account with the supplier.    This is SKU 1420 from de Graaf Trailers,  with the SKU 00088 strop:    http://www.degraafftrailers.co.uk/boat-trailer-parts-online-shop.htm#!/PROFESSIONAL-2-SPEED-HAND-WINCH-900KG-2000LB/p/43274500/category=5078005

                                    This replaced the winch which was on the trailer when I bought it,  and from memory the reason for changing was that I found I needed a two-speed winch.

                                    I also have a second winch,  with the strop connected to a rope and a turning block as far aft on the trailer as possible,  which I use to winch the boat off the trailer.    This winch is the same capacity,  but single speed:   http://www.degraafftrailers.co.uk/boat-trailer-parts-online-shop.htm#!/HEAVY-DUTY-HAND-WINCH-900KG-2000LB-WITH-STRAP/p/43274597/category=5078005.

                                    The rope,  and also the turning block,  used for winching off need to be suitably strong;   again from memory,  I use 12 mm rope,  and a Tuffnol block equivalent to a Barton size 4.   That is moderately large,  but I started smaller and found the upgrade to be necessary.    I started with a Barton size 2,  which snapped under the load;   then for a short period I used a Barton size 3,  which was successful in that it did the job at first,  and it did not snap  -  but it quickly wore out and started generating high levels of friction.

                                    Hope this is helpful,




                                    Oliver




                                  • g2rywjymyuxj4ldb4cqgt4agkbmsexonybeqvszq
                                    Hi William, The winch on my trailer looks old enough to be original. That has stamped on it :- Line pull: 600lbs first layer. 300lbs full drum. As Oliver says,
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 15, 2017
                                      Hi William,
                                      The winch on my trailer looks old enough to be original. That has stamped on it :-

                                      Line pull:
                                      600lbs first layer.
                                      300lbs full drum.

                                      As Oliver says, if you have a gentle slipway and the boat just floats onto the trailer,  the winch does very little work.

                                      Best regards, Tony.
                                    • olivershaw4229
                                      ... Agreed; but those are the conditions in which you need to wade deep enough for the boat to just float on. If, as at my home club, you have up to four
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 16, 2017
                                        >  If you have a gentle slipway and the boat just floats onto the trailer,  the winch does very little work.



                                        Agreed;    but those are the conditions in which you need to wade deep enough for the boat to just float on.

                                        If,  as at my home club,  you have up to four knots of tide across the slipway at that depth,   broadside on to the boat and trailer,  you may need to winch on in somewhat less depth (to achieve less tide).   Indeed this can be a matter of personal safety,  we have occasionally had even some of our most experienced members,  myself included,  washed off our feet by the tide while launching or recovering boats.  

                                        In these circumstances,  winching on when there is very deliberately not enough water to just float her on,  the winch may then do a very considerable amount of work.

                                        It all depends on the totality of your situation;  and it you trailer-sail at a wide variety of locations this adds yet another consideration.



                                        Oliver

                                      • olivershaw4229
                                        There is yet another dimension to recovering a boat onto a trailer, which I had not appreciated until yesterday. The background is that the trailer which came
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jul 10, 2017
                                          There is yet another dimension to recovering a boat onto a trailer,  which I had not appreciated until yesterday.

                                          The background is that the trailer which came with the boat when I bought her had bunks rather than bilge rollers,  and floating her on was the only option.   Since the amount of silt in the Mersey,  my base,  makes it absolutely impossible to see the trailer underwater while recovering the boat I got a friend with a welding set to make me up some docking bars.

                                          That trailer was long past its sell-by date,  and even when new was not man enough for the total weight of my boat with her added ballast and when also fully laden for cruising,  so about three years ago I replaced it.    The replacement has rollers throughout,  and is designed to winch the boat on and off,  rather than floating her on or off,  so I can do the job in far less depth.

                                          Yesterday we had a big event at my club,  with a Shipmate Rally as well as our own domestic activities,   and had to recover around seventeen boats,  nearly all of them trailer-sailers and powerboats,  all to be done in a comparatively small window of time after we had returned from sailing and before the tide left the slipway.   We have an immensely challenging slipway  -  nearly horizontal and with a strong tide setting across it,  but we also have some well developed techniques,  and a very well practised and expert shore team,  and we had the use of several launch vehicles,  one of which has a reasonably deep wading capability.  

                                          Boats were coming back and standing off,  awaiting their turn to be called in.   I had very deliberately left my waders ashore,  because I didn't want them in the boat while sailing,   and I radioed the club to say that I proposed to anchor and come ashore by dinghy to collect them,  unless they were absolutely happy to recover me with myself remaining aboard,  without the need for me to wade.    I was asked to remain aboard,  and they would do that.

                                          When my turn came,  the shore party floated her onto the trailer,  which was not the way that I would have done it had I been in the water and able to supervise,  but these guys are very experienced and everything seemed alright,  so I acquiesced;  although they did have a little difficulty aligning her to the trailer.    However we thought we had got it right,  until the launch vehicle pulled her ashore.    She was very seriously off-centre,  with the keel off the rollers for its full length,  and about a foot too far to port at the stern,  with the boat canted at a hazardous angle.  Additionally one of the pivoting rollers had up-ended itself,  and was in some danger of puncturing the hull.

                                          There was no option but to put her back in,  with some difficulty now because there was no longer enough depth of water available. 

                                          However we did manage to get her back afloat,  and then winched her back onto the trailer the way the trailer is designed to work,  and this time did it without problems.


                                          Oliver
                                        • Jonathan Knight
                                          Well done Oliver. You are very generous to your launch crew, but I guess in the circumstances they were rushing. Just to boast Iast year I invested in a new to
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jul 11, 2017
                                            Well done Oliver. You are very generous to your launch crew, but I guess in the circumstances they were rushing. 
                                            Just to boast Iast year I invested in a new to me trailer based on two sets of swinging rollers. After a lot of re-adjusting and the addition of a couple of front keel rollers I am able to pull the boat on and off the ground, no water necessary. The trailer also carries the boat a little lower than the original. Being able to move her back and forth also means I can centre her after hauling out, if necessary.
                                            Enjoy your sail in Milford, sorry not to be able to join you.
                                            Regards Jonarhan

                                            On 10 Jul 2017 21:58, "acapella13934@... [privateer20]" <privateer20@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            There is yet another dimension to recovering a boat onto a trailer,  which I had not appreciated until yesterday.

                                            The background is that the trailer which came with the boat when I bought her had bunks rather than bilge rollers,  and floating her on was the only option.   Since the amount of silt in the Mersey,  my base,  makes it absolutely impossible to see the trailer underwater while recovering the boat I got a friend with a welding set to make me up some docking bars.

                                            That trailer was long past its sell-by date,  and even when new was not man enough for the total weight of my boat with her added ballast and when also fully laden for cruising,  so about three years ago I replaced it.    The replacement has rollers throughout,  and is designed to winch the boat on and off,  rather than floating her on or off,  so I can do the job in far less depth.

                                            Yesterday we had a big event at my club,  with a Shipmate Rally as well as our own domestic activities,   and had to recover around seventeen boats,  nearly all of them trailer-sailers and powerboats,  all to be done in a comparatively small window of time after we had returned from sailing and before the tide left the slipway.   We have an immensely challenging slipway  -  nearly horizontal and with a strong tide setting across it,  but we also have some well developed techniques,  and a very well practised and expert shore team,  and we had the use of several launch vehicles,  one of which has a reasonably deep wading capability.  

                                            Boats were coming back and standing off,  awaiting their turn to be called in.   I had very deliberately left my waders ashore,  because I didn't want them in the boat while sailing,   and I radioed the club to say that I proposed to anchor and come ashore by dinghy to collect them,  unless they were absolutely happy to recover me with myself remaining aboard,  without the need for me to wade.    I was asked to remain aboard,  and they would do that.

                                            When my turn came,  the shore party floated her onto the trailer,  which was not the way that I would have done it had I been in the water and able to supervise,  but these guys are very experienced and everything seemed alright,  so I acquiesced;  although they did have a little difficulty aligning her to the trailer.    However we thought we had got it right,  until the launch vehicle pulled her ashore.    She was very seriously off-centre,  with the keel off the rollers for its full length,  and about a foot too far to port at the stern,  with the boat canted at a hazardous angle.  Additionally one of the pivoting rollers had up-ended itself,  and was in some danger of puncturing the hull.

                                            There was no option but to put her back in,  with some difficulty now because there was no longer enough depth of water available. 

                                            However we did manage to get her back afloat,  and then winched her back onto the trailer the way the trailer is designed to work,  and this time did it without problems.


                                            Oliver
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