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How to manage water in the cockpit

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  • elidore@gmx.de
    After a few month sailing Mary Ann II at Edersee here in Germany and having a nice place at the jetty, I ve come to admire the well thought through design of
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 16, 2017

      After a few month sailing Mary Ann II at Edersee here in Germany and having a nice place at the jetty, I've come to admire the well thought through design of her.

      She's easily sailed single handed, all ropes to be handled from the cockpit, the traveler far back and not in the middle of the cockpit, like I've seen on other boats, the boom high enough to never be in any danger to kill me while coming over to the other side.



      I've added sand ballast under the cockpit floor, like the manual said.

      Which brings me to my problem: The sand ballast close to the stern makes her so low, when one steps onto the boat, water comes through the bailer from the engine well into the cockpit.

      At the moment I use a cork to seal the bailer while aboard.

      A few weeks back, I had forgotten to take the cork out and the rain water accumulated to dangerous hights in the few days I hadn't visited the boat. It was halfway up to the companionway...



      I'm quite curious, how other Privateer owners deal with this problem.

      Should I perhaps place the sand ballast differently and not mainly underneath the cockpit?

      Is there a kind of self bailer, which works one way and lets water out but not back into the cockpit?


      For any advise I'd be really grateful.



    • olivershaw4229
      Short of the type of major surgery which most owners would find too daunting I don t think there is a solution to having a self-draining cockpit on the
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 16, 2017
        Short of the type of major surgery which most owners would find too daunting I don't think there is a solution to having a self-draining cockpit on the Privateer.  The Shipmates,  by the same designer,  have a similar problem.

        Of course one option,  which you may wish to consider in the future,  is to have a canvas cockpit cover made.   This is fairly usual,  amongst a wide range of types and designs of boat,  and it should keep most of the rain out (ideally all of it) when the boat is unattended.

        Alternatively you could limit the nuisance by installing a second drain hole a little higher up,  comfortably above the loaded waterline.   Some research (trial and error) would be needed to establish where the waterline is when there is water in the cockpit.

        My own solution,  in slightly different circumstances,  is to just accept that the cockpit will not drain when the boat is afloat.   But my boat lives on a trailer ashore when not in use,  so I can then leave the drain hole open;   and when in use I am aboard and  thus I can bail out the cockpit as needed.   But I am considering a cockpit cover for the future.

        I initially used a loose bung,  as you are doing,  but then found a screw-in bung with permanent push-fit housing which was just the right diameter.   Like this one,  which looks similar and is from the same chandler,  but if you are tempted to do likewise then do check the diameter of the hole first.   If I remember correctly,  the chandler has them in more than one diameter.

         
        I do know that one owner of a Shipmate (Paul Brown) went to extremes,  both to give himself more headroom and to create a self-draining cockpit.   He cut horizontally right round the rubbing strake,  and raised the entire deck by three inches,  then made good the three-inch gap below the new deck.   Then he raised the cockpit floor.    But few owners would want to undertake that sort of a job.


        Oliver
         
      • Sean Norris
        Hello Oliver As a n ex Privateer owner I am always on the lookout for Privateers. Image my surprise last Friday Evening when I saw one on a Marina in A Coruna,
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 16, 2017
          Hello Oliver

          As a n ex Privateer owner I am always on the lookout for Privateers. Image my surprise last Friday Evening when I saw one on a Marina in A Coruna, Galicia, North West Spain. I was coming alongside and adjoining Marina at the time so I did not have the opportunity to photograph her. She had a black hull and the owner had added a porthole forward of the cabin window.


          Sean Norris


          On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 at 19:45, acapella13934@... [privateer20]
          <privateer20@...> wrote:
           

          Short of the type of major surgery which most owners would find too daunting I don't think there is a solution to having a self-draining cockpit on the Privateer.  The Shipmates,  by the same designer,  have a similar problem.


          Of course one option,  which you may wish to consider in the future,  is to have a canvas cockpit cover made.   This is fairly usual,  amongst a wide range of types and designs of boat,  and it should keep most of the rain out (ideally all of it) when the boat is unattended.

          Alternatively you could limit the nuisance by installing a second drain hole a little higher up,  comfortably above the loaded waterline.   Some research (trial and error) would be needed to establish where the waterline is when there is water in the cockpit.

          My own solution,  in slightly different circumstances,  is to just accept that the cockpit will not drain when the boat is afloat.   But my boat lives on a trailer ashore when not in use,  so I can then leave the drain hole open;   and when in use I am aboard and  thus I can bail out the cockpit as needed.   But I am considering a cockpit cover for the future.

          I initially used a loose bung,  as you are doing,  but then found a screw-in bung with permanent push-fit housing which was just the right diameter.   Like this one,  which looks similar and is from the same chandler,  but if you are tempted to do likewise then do check the diameter of the hole first.   If I remember correctly,  the chandler has them in more than one diameter.

           
          I do know that one owner of a Shipmate (Paul Brown) went to extremes,  both to give himself more headroom and to create a self-draining cockpit.   He cut horizontally right round the rubbing strake,  and raised the entire deck by three inches,  then made good the three-inch gap below the new deck.   Then he raised the cockpit floor.    But few owners would want to undertake that sort of a job.


          Oliver
           
        • Jonathan Knight
          I am quite happy accepting the situation. If the boat is left unattended on the water I remove the bung. When on the boat the bung is replaced. I have a
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 16, 2017
            I am quite happy accepting the situation. If the boat is left unattended on the water I remove the bung. When on the boat the bung is replaced. I have a slatted false floor which keeps my feet above any water that I can't be bothered to remove.
            I have put a two way valve on my bilge pump so that I can pump water out of the cockpit instead of the sump. If the water builds I can turn the valve on the bilge pump and pump out all but the last 8mm of water. If there were a great deal of water I can pull the bung and most of the water would empty out of the cockpit without pumping.

            Regards Jonathan

            On 16 Aug 2017 19:22, "elidore@... [privateer20]" <privateer20@...> wrote:
             

            After a few month sailing Mary Ann II at Edersee here in Germany and having a nice place at the jetty, I've come to admire the well thought through design of her.

            She's easily sailed single handed, all ropes to be handled from the cockpit, the traveler far back and not in the middle of the cockpit, like I've seen on other boats, the boom high enough to never be in any danger to kill me while coming over to the other side.



            I've added sand ballast under the cockpit floor, like the manual said.

            Which brings me to my problem: The sand ballast close to the stern makes her so low, when one steps onto the boat, water comes through the bailer from the engine well into the cockpit.

            At the moment I use a cork to seal the bailer while aboard.

            A few weeks back, I had forgotten to take the cork out and the rain water accumulated to dangerous hights in the few days I hadn't visited the boat. It was halfway up to the companionway...



            I'm quite curious, how other Privateer owners deal with this problem.

            Should I perhaps place the sand ballast differently and not mainly underneath the cockpit?

            Is there a kind of self bailer, which works one way and lets water out but not back into the cockpit?


            For any advise I'd be really grateful.



          • olivershaw4229
            ... I suspect that the answer is NO. There are of course various one-way devices available for certain other purposes, based on flap valves for the one-way
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 17, 2017
              Is there a kind of self bailer, which works one way and lets water out but not back into the cockpit?


              I suspect that the answer is NO.

              There are of course various one-way devices available for certain other purposes,  based on flap valves for the one-way element,  although both the types I am thinking of would be unduly cumbersome to fit.   Dinghy self-bailers are one example,  and the one-way flap valves intended for use with bilge pumps are another.   A simpler way of achieving a flap valve would be to make your own,  by tacking a sheet of suitably flexible non-porous material (e.g. rubber) over the outlet from the drain inside the outboard well;   secure it along the top edge only,  and allow it to flap freely.

              But the important thing is that the proprietory devices above are not designed for this purpose,  and although the best of them greatly restrict flow in the reverse direction flap valves do not normally offer a perfect seal.   Even if such a fitting were to permit only a trickle in the reverse direction,  that would admit a substantial volume over a period of several days.


              Oliver
            • olivershaw4229
              ... Yes, something of a surprise; although there are a number of our current members on the continent, and many of the boats were exported there when new.
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 17, 2017
                Imagine my surprise last Friday Evening when I saw one on a Marina in A Coruna, Galicia, North West Spain. 


                Yes,  something of a surprise;  although there are a number of our current members on the continent,  and many of the boats were exported there when new.   I vaguely think that a few years ago we did have a member with a Privateer in Spain,   but she is not currently listed in the Boat Register,  and I cannot now identify the member from the current membership list.

                The black hull caused me to check the photos of Black Pig,  stolen some years ago from Graeme Benson,  who founded this group;  but she does not have the additional porthole forward of the cabin windows.



                Oliver
              • elidore@gmx.de
                Thank you for your comments and recomendations. It s nice to hear, how others deal with this problem. A canvas cover is ordered, but the sailmaker is either
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 18, 2017
                  Thank you for your comments and recomendations.
                  It's nice to hear, how others deal with this problem.


                  A canvas cover is ordered, but the sailmaker is either very busy or very slow, hopefully I'll get before the end of season, which will be in October.
                  In the meantime I live with the cork. I also have a slatted floor in the cockpit.
                  Still there are several liters of water inside by the time I'll get the cork in and this needs to be bailed out.

                  Anyway, as long that's the only "flaw", than I'll be happy to accept this, as I just love the boat!

                  Coming winter we plan to rewire her and get the positions lights as well as interiour lights working. Another challenge.


                  Regards from Kassel, Germany
                  Carola
                • olivershaw4229
                  ... Welcome to the world of sailing!!! Oliver
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 19, 2017
                    A canvas cover is ordered, but the sailmaker is either very busy or very slow, hopefully I'll get before the end of season, which will be in October.

                    Welcome to the world of sailing!!!


                    Oliver
                  • elidore@gmx.de
                    ... Thanks you so much... So you say sailing is slow and the business around it as well? Well, I hear you. The most heard comment at the jetty from any boat
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 4, 2017
                      >> A canvas cover is ordered, but the sailmaker is either very busy or very slow, hopefully I'll get before the end of season, which will be in October.

                      >Welcome to the world of sailing!!!


                      >Oliver

                      Thanks you so much...
                      So you say sailing is slow and the business around it as well?
                      Well, I hear you.
                      The most heard comment at the jetty from any boat owner is: 'Must fix/change this in winter'

                      The sailmaker must have read my comment here, though. The cover is ready and already tested in a thunderstorm last weekend, where we just in time managed to get it secured before a deluge came down. So it's working and keeps the rain out of the cockpit as well as the morning dew. When we sleep aboard with two adults and one dog, we need the companionway open for airing.


                      Regards from Kassel, Germany

                      Carola

                    • olivershaw4229
                      Carola, I have just looked at your photos, and I must congratulate you on having acquired a particularly good looking boat. Much of that appears to be the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 6, 2017
                        Carola,

                        I have just looked at your photos,  and I must congratulate you on having acquired a particularly good looking boat.    Much of that appears to be the result of your own work,  of course.

                        And I admire you for sailing such a small boat with a dog,  and particularly that breed;   I am a dog lover myself,  but when my last dog died I took the deliberate decision not to replace,  very largely because I felt that was not enough room on board a Privateer for myself plus dog.



                        Oliver
                      • olivershaw4229
                        For anyone else who has not looked recently, there is also a photo of a rather nice painting of Beau Vista under sail. Worth a look. Oliver
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 6, 2017
                          For anyone else who has not looked recently,  there is also a photo of a rather nice painting of Beau Vista under sail.

                          Worth a look.



                          Oliver
                        • olivershaw4229
                          It is high time we changed the home page photo and the top cover photo, and I have just tried to do so. The top cover photo is fine, but the letterbox format
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 8, 2017
                            It is high time we changed the home page photo and the top cover photo,  and I have just tried to do so.

                            The top cover photo is fine,  but the letterbox format limits the photos which we can use for that.

                            The Home page photo is more conventional,  and I have tried repeatedly this evening to switch to one of the superb photos from the Mary Ann II album,  the boat owned by our German member Carola.   Unfortunately,  despite my best efforts in resizing the photos what appears is invariable just a very small part of the photo,  outside my control,  and this does not do the photo justice.   However I know that Yahoo have been having problems in the last day or so,  so it is possible that they may sort out this technical glitch over the next few days,  or alternatively that I may be able to sort it out later.    I will keep this under review.



                            Oliver

                          • elidore@gmx.de
                            Hi there, I m flattered, that you think the pictures me and some friends or family members took of my boat. (It s difficult to take a picture of your boat
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 11, 2017
                              Hi there,
                              I'm flattered, that you think the pictures me and some friends or family members took of my boat. (It's difficult to take a picture of your boat under sail, when you're the one sailing her...)

                              I've added some pictures of her last sail for the season on the way to the slip.
                              As an early riser, I took her in the early morning hours out for the 3km to the slip. I hadn't calculated on autumn weather with dense foggy patches, which made navigating without instruments quite an adventure.

                              We took her out onto the trailer, which turned out to be a family outing, as my daughter needed to test her new Jeeps ability to wading.
                              Unfortunately the slip was quite shallow and my trailer doesn't sport a winch, so it took some effort to push her onto the trailer. Later we realised, one of the rollers for the skeg was sitting with the edge in the centerplate opening, so it took quite some time to lift her enough to get her centered onto the trailer.

                              This winter a major overhaul is due, as we found during the summer several places, where rain water gets inside. Also some fittings need replacing.
                              But that's how it is, always something to fix and optimise.

                              Regards from Kassel, Germany
                              Carola
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