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Re: Class Association (WAS Skylark)

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  • Oliver
    ... existing sails and or marked on the boat from the members of your site. ... For formal and legally recognised identification, available to any small
    Message 1 of 14 , 8 Jan 05:55
      --- In privateer20@..., Jonathan Knight wrote:
      >
      > I would like a number to identify the boat and am looking at registration for travelling abroad.
      > We could set up a formal owners association though their are only a few of us and it would be a lot of work.
      > I suspect that like naming yourself or the boat you can do what you like.
      >
      > Oliver what about creating a voluntary list of boat numbers based on
      existing sails and or marked on the boat from the members of your site.
      > Owners without numbers could grab an alternative number. It would be up to the owner to argue it out with anyone else using the same number. If someone formed a Class Association they could make their own rules then.
      >


      For formal and legally recognised identification, available to any small pleasure vessel but with an identification unique to the individual vessel, there is the Small Ships Register. This was set up to be a simpler and cheaper alternative to the Register of British Ships, and is adequate for most purposes, including travel abroad - although not if you want to raise a marine mortgage on the vessel.

      A voluntary list of boat numbers would certainly be possible, but it would have more status if we formed ourselves into a Class Association. Issuing sail numbers and maintaining a register would then be one activity of the Association. Other activities might include sailing events, we might possibly bring this site within the Class Association, and it might be possible to negotiate a competitive members' insurance policy via one of the recognised insurers. Plus any other activities that members wanted.

      Alternatively, if owners wished to explore this, we might seek to join the Shipmate Association en bloc, and request a specific section for Privateer owners.

      Open to the rest of you now to come back with your views on these ideas.

      If owners wish to set up a Class Association, or alternatively if you wish to enter into negotiations with the Shipmate Association, I would be happy to do the donkey work of getting things started.




      Oliver
    • stevieboy262
      Hi Oliver, for your information, I have received an email from Graham Thompson who is Secretary of the Shipmate association, noting the thread on this site
      Message 2 of 14 , 15 Jan 07:28
        Hi Oliver, for your information, I have received an email from Graham Thompson who is Secretary of the "Shipmate" association, noting the thread on this site of a consideration of forming a boarding party to join the association. It would seem that they would not be obstructive towards this proposal.

        I am afraid I cannot forward his email to me at present, because, our server has broken!

        His email address is as follows:sec@...
        Telephone: 02089427712

        I hope this is of some interest.

        Regards
        Steve

        --- In privateer20@..., "Oliver" wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In privateer20@..., Jonathan Knight wrote:
        > >
        > > I would like a number to identify the boat and am looking at registration for travelling abroad.
        > > We could set up a formal owners association though their are only a few of us and it would be a lot of work.
        > > I suspect that like naming yourself or the boat you can do what you like.
        > >
        > > Oliver what about creating a voluntary list of boat numbers based on
        > existing sails and or marked on the boat from the members of your site.
        > > Owners without numbers could grab an alternative number. It would be up to the owner to argue it out with anyone else using the same number. If someone formed a Class Association they could make their own rules then.
        > >
        >
        >
        > For formal and legally recognised identification, available to any small pleasure vessel but with an identification unique to the individual vessel, there is the Small Ships Register. This was set up to be a simpler and cheaper alternative to the Register of British Ships, and is adequate for most purposes, including travel abroad - although not if you want to raise a marine mortgage on the vessel.
        >
        > A voluntary list of boat numbers would certainly be possible, but it would have more status if we formed ourselves into a Class Association. Issuing sail numbers and maintaining a register would then be one activity of the Association. Other activities might include sailing events, we might possibly bring this site within the Class Association, and it might be possible to negotiate a competitive members' insurance policy via one of the recognised insurers. Plus any other activities that members wanted.
        >
        > Alternatively, if owners wished to explore this, we might seek to join the Shipmate Association en bloc, and request a specific section for Privateer owners.
        >
        > Open to the rest of you now to come back with your views on these ideas.
        >
        > If owners wish to set up a Class Association, or alternatively if you wish to enter into negotiations with the Shipmate Association, I would be happy to do the donkey work of getting things started.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Oliver
        >
      • Oliver
        ... Thank you very much for that. Do I take it that you are already a member: is that why he wrote to yourself? Certainly joining the Shipmate Association
        Message 3 of 14 , 15 Jan 09:34
          --- In privateer20@..., "stevieboy262" wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi Oliver, for your information, I have received an email from Graham Thompson who is Secretary of the "Shipmate" association, noting the thread on this site of a consideration of forming a boarding party to join the association. It would seem that they would not be obstructive towards this proposal.
          >
          > I am afraid I cannot forward his email to me at present, because, our server has broken!
          >
          > His email address is as follows:sec@...
          > Telephone: 02089427712
          >
          > I hope this is of some interest.
          >




          Thank you very much for that. Do I take it that you are already a member: is that why he wrote to yourself?

          Certainly joining the Shipmate Association would be a lot simpler than setting up our own Association, if that is what owners want, and it would also have the benefit - for both types of boat - of increasing the overall numbers.

          I think some degree of negotiation with them would be appropriate if we were likely to bring a significant number of members onboard, but first I would like a little more feedback as to what route members of this site wish to go. The most obvious choices, in no particular order of priority, being: (1) Set up our own Class Association or Owners' Association, (2) join the Shipmate Association and try to negotiate that we establish a specific Privateer Group within it, or (3) do nothing.

          But I need to know the wishes of you good folks, in the plural, before doing anything very definite.



          Oliver
        • stevieboy262
          No Oliver,I am not a member at present of the Shipmate association. I emailed him to ask whether a Privateer owner could become a member..he looked at the
          Message 4 of 14 , 17 Jan 03:29
            No Oliver,I am not a member at present of the "Shipmate" association. I emailed him to ask whether a Privateer owner could become a member..he looked at the group posts and noted this in his email to me.
            I personally think it better to try to join the "shipmate" association, as both classes do not have huge numbers of members..

            --- In privateer20@..., "Oliver" wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In privateer20@..., "stevieboy262" wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Oliver, for your information, I have received an email from Graham Thompson who is Secretary of the "Shipmate" association, noting the thread on this site of a consideration of forming a boarding party to join the association. It would seem that they would not be obstructive towards this proposal.
            > >
            > > I am afraid I cannot forward his email to me at present, because, our server has broken!
            > >
            > > His email address is as follows:sec@
            > > Telephone: 02089427712
            > >
            > > I hope this is of some interest.
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Thank you very much for that. Do I take it that you are already a member: is that why he wrote to yourself?
            >
            > Certainly joining the Shipmate Association would be a lot simpler than setting up our own Association, if that is what owners want, and it would also have the benefit - for both types of boat - of increasing the overall numbers.
            >
            > I think some degree of negotiation with them would be appropriate if we were likely to bring a significant number of members onboard, but first I would like a little more feedback as to what route members of this site wish to go. The most obvious choices, in no particular order of priority, being: (1) Set up our own Class Association or Owners' Association, (2) join the Shipmate Association and try to negotiate that we establish a specific Privateer Group within it, or (3) do nothing.
            >
            > But I need to know the wishes of you good folks, in the plural, before doing anything very definite.
            >
            >
            >
            > Oliver
            >
          • Oliver
            ... Thank you for that: I will now make contact with him. ... I agree with you that there would be a benefit to both, for this reason. However I would still
            Message 5 of 14 , 17 Jan 05:01
              --- In privateer20@..., "stevieboy262" wrote:
              >
              > No Oliver,I am not a member at present of the "Shipmate" association. I emailed him to ask whether a Privateer owner could become a member..he looked at the group posts and noted this in his email to me.
              >


              Thank you for that: I will now make contact with him.




              > I personally think it better to try to join the "shipmate" association, as both classes do not have huge numbers of members..
              >


              I agree with you that there would be a benefit to both, for this reason.

              However I would still like feedback from a larger proportion of our members as to what your preferences are.





              Oliver
            • olivershaw4229
              Resurrecting this topic from a couple of years ago, in default of a class association for the Privateer (and the feeling expressed two years ago that we
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 9, 2015
                Resurrecting this topic from a couple of years ago,   in default of a class association for the Privateer (and the feeling expressed two years ago that we might do better to join the Shipmates) I have now opened official exploratory discussions with the Shipmate Owners' Association.    The Shipmates (both Dayboat and Senior) are slightly smaller sister ships from the same designer and builder,  the shipmate being an earlier design,  and they regard the Privateer as a "stretched Shipmate".

                Anyone can join as an associate member anyway,  but full membership is currently open only to Shipmate owners,  although I have been told that even as an associate I would be most welcome to participate in any of their events.   I have suggested to them that as potential members Privateer owners are in a sort of halfway house;   owning the slightly larger sister ships we are a lot closer to them than other associate members,  and the question for discussion is whether they would wish to accept Privateer owners as full members.

                There is no commitment yet on either side,  but they are receptive to the suggestion and are taking soundings.   

                I have also today put in my own personal application to join them.

                I will keep this Group informed of developments.



                Oliver
              • olivershaw4229
                ... I suppose it would be helpful to give the URL of their website: Shipmate Owners Association - fabulous pocket cruiser! http://www.shipmate.org.uk
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 9, 2015
                   I have now opened official exploratory discussions with the Shipmate Owners' Association.    



                  I suppose it would be helpful to give the URL of their website:  Shipmate Owners' Association - fabulous pocket cruiser!

                   

                   




                  Oliver
                • olivershaw4229
                  ... To update this, I have now heard back from the Shipmate Owners Association. They have welcomed me as, provisionally, a full member, but this may
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 18, 2015
                    > I have suggested to them that as potential members Privateer owners are in a sort of halfway house;   owning the slightly larger sister ships we are a lot closer to them than other associate members,  and the question for discussion is whether they would wish to accept Privateer owners as full members.

                    > There is no commitment yet on either side,  but they are receptive to the suggestion and are taking soundings.   

                    > I have also today put in my own personal application to join them.
                     


                    To update this,   I have now heard back from the Shipmate Owners' Association.   They have welcomed me as,  provisionally,  a full member,  but this may need to be adjusted after the vote at the AGM (September).

                    Reading between the lines,   in the light of my original suggestion to them and of what I have already been told I suspect that this vote may well be on whether to recognise the Privateer as another category of boats qualifying for full membership (they already have two categories;  the Shipmate (dayboat),  and the Shipmate Senior),  and thus admit Privateer Owners as full members.

                    I would commend the idea of joining them to other Privateer owners.   Membership is remarkably inexpensive,  just £7.50 per year for full membership (£6.50 for associate membership),  and as well as the twice-yearly newsletter they offer a number of events over the year,  spread around the country,  both inland and coastal.    The link below takes you direct to the Sailing Programme.
                     
                    Shipmate Meetings 2014

                     

                    They are also of course a network of owners of boats which are sister ships to ours,   and my first-hand experience of another class association together with my second-hand knowledge of a handful of others suggest that such a network can offer both social camaraderie and practical help.




                    Oliver

                  • Stephen Williams
                    Good news, I would certainly join the association.. Steve From: privateer20@yahoogroups.co.uk [mailto:privateer20@yahoogroups.co.uk] Sent: 18 March 2015 11:29
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 18, 2015

                      Good news, I would certainly join the association..

                      Steve

                       

                      From: privateer20@... [mailto:privateer20@...]
                      Sent: 18 March 2015 11:29
                      To: privateer20@...
                      Subject: [privateer20] Re: Class Association

                       

                       

                      > I have suggested to them that as potential members Privateer owners are in a sort of halfway house;   owning the slightly larger sister ships we are a lot closer to them than other associate members,  and the question for discussion is whether they would wish to accept Privateer owners as full members.



                      > There is no commitment yet on either side,  but they are receptive to the suggestion and are taking soundings.   

                       

                      > I have also today put in my own personal application to join them.

                       

                       

                       

                      To update this,   I have now heard back from the Shipmate Owners' Association.   They have welcomed me as,  provisionally,  a full member,  but this may need to be adjusted after the vote at the AGM (September).

                       

                      Reading between the lines,   in the light of my original suggestion to them and of what I have already been told I suspect that this vote may well be on whether to recognise the Privateer as another category of boats qualifying for full membership (they already have two categories;  the Shipmate (dayboat),  and the Shipmate Senior),  and thus admit Privateer Owners as full members.

                       

                      I would commend the idea of joining them to other Privateer owners.   Membership is remarkably inexpensive,  just £7.50 per year for full membership (£6.50 for associate membership),  and as well as the twice-yearly newsletter they offer a number of events over the year,  spread around the country,  both inland and coastal.    The link below takes you direct to the Sailing Programme.

                       

                      Shipmate Meetings 2014

                      image

                      Shipmate Meetings 2014

                      Disclaimer: All people attending any Shipmate meeting do so entirely at their own risk.

                      Preview by Yahoo

                       

                      They are also of course a network of owners of boats which are sister ships to ours,   and my first-hand experience of another class association together with my second-hand knowledge of a handful of others suggest that such a network can offer both social camaraderie and practical help.

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      Oliver

                       

                    • olivershaw4229
                      I have now had a reply from the Shipmate Owners Association on the matter of my membership status, and that of any other Privateer owners who may wish to
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 1, 2015
                        I have now had a reply from the Shipmate Owners' Association on the matter of my membership status,  and that of any other Privateer owners who may wish to join them,  and with their permission I am posting that reply here.

                        This sounds very reasonable,  and I would warmly encourage other Privateer owners to join them.

                        Although currently it is Associate Membership which is offered to us,  that in practice seems to give us all the important benefits of Full Membership (I am not sure about voting rights,  which in most organisations are not available to Associate Members),  and if enough of us join them and the relationship works well for both sides then there is at least the possibility of amending the Constitution at a later stage so that Full Membership could then be offered.




                        Oliver
                         

                         
                        Dear Oliver
                         
                        At last we have the majority of replies back in from the SOA committee, and the general feel is that we should offer Associate membership to anyone from the Privateer forum.
                         
                        The most expressed view was that it sounded like a good thing, but we should go step be step, which sounds a sensible approach to see how things develop. Depending how that goes, we can look at things like amending constitutions etc!
                         
                        Our spring edition of SAGA has just been emailed out (copy attached) but we can use the summer edition to advise members and also promote each other's meetings.
                         
                        I hope that sounds feasible, and look forward to hearing from you.
                         
                         
                        Best regards
                         
                         
                        Tony
                      • olivershaw4229
                        ... By way of whetting the appetite and promoting the Association, I am attaching the Spring copy of the Shipmate Owners Association magazine, SAGA. Apart
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 2, 2015

                          Our spring edition of SAGA has just been emailed out (copy attached)


                          By way of whetting the appetite and promoting the Association,  I am attaching the Spring copy of the Shipmate Owners' Association magazine,  SAGA.

                          Apart from some interesting articles,  you will also find therein (on page 4) the dates and venues and contact points for meetings.   For a small Association there are a commendably generous number,  and they are spread throughout the season,  and also have a reasonable geographical spread.    They are open to all Association members,  including Association members,  and thus are open to any Privateer owners who choose to join them.

                          Looking to the future,  it is intended that we will each promote the other's events,  and I have already submitted a note about our September event for the next issue of SAGA.






                          Oliver



                        • olivershaw4229
                          ... Damnation!!! Forgot that on this site, unlike many other Yahoo Groups sites, and despite being the senior Moderator, I cannot include attachments. And I
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 2, 2015
                            >  I am attaching the Spring copy of the Shipmate Owners' Association magazine,  SAGA.



                            Damnation!!!

                            Forgot that on this site,  unlike many other Yahoo Groups sites,  and despite being the senior Moderator,  I cannot include attachments.

                            And I can't find anything in the Management facilities that would enable me to change that!

                            Will therefore post it to the Files section instead.




                            Oliver
                          • Jonathan Knight
                            It came to me as an attachment with your first message OK Oliver Regards Jonathan On 2 Apr 2015 23:54, acapella13934@talktalk.net [privateer20]
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 3, 2015

                              It came to me as an attachment with your first message OK Oliver
                              Regards Jonathan

                              On 2 Apr 2015 23:54, "acapella13934@... [privateer20]" <privateer20@...> wrote:
                               

                              >  I am attaching the Spring copy of the Shipmate Owners' Association magazine,  SAGA.




                              Damnation!!!

                              Forgot that on this site,  unlike many other Yahoo Groups sites,  and despite being the senior Moderator,  I cannot include attachments.

                              And I can't find anything in the Management facilities that would enable me to change that!

                              Will therefore post it to the Files section instead.




                              Oliver
                            • olivershaw4229
                              Thanks. Just not visible on the Message Board for some reason. Oliver
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 3, 2015
                                Thanks.

                                Just not visible on the Message Board for some reason.




                                Oliver
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